MINUTES OF THE INFORMAL MEETING OF THE JOHNSON COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS:
DECEMBER 10, 2008
TABLE OF CONTENTS
Page
Key Issues Work Session........................................................................................................ 1
East Central Iowa Council of Governments Assessment and Iowa City Concerns........... 1
Project Updates.......................................................................................................... 4
Susan Jutz and CSA Activities: Farming and Conditional Use Permits, Etc..................... 6
Consideration to Vacate Level B Road on the Johnson/Cedar County Line that is East of Sutliff at the End of 145th Street................................................................................................................. 13
Infrastructure Projects Ready for Stimulus Program.................................................... 18
Agricultural Exemptions During Road Embargoes for Nursery Businesses in Johnson County 20
Internal Processes, Expectations, and Other Operational Issues of the Board of Supervisors Office 21
Chairperson Sullivan called the Johnson County Board of Supervisors to order in the Johnson County Administration Building at 9:00 a.m. Members present were: Pat Harney, Larry Meyers, Terrence Neuzil, Sally Stutsman, and Rod Sullivan.
Johnson County Council of Governments Executive Director John Yapp said the Johnson County Council of Governments budget is part of the City of Iowa City budget for administrative purposes. As part of the City budget review the Iowa City City Manager has questioned the way East Central Iowa Council of Governments assesses communities in Johnson County. In the other counties how ECICOG serves the assessment is reflected in the county budget on a per capita basis. In Johnson County the assessments are done per capita and are assessed to each individual municipality and the County pays for those in the unincorporated area. The reason the City Manager has questioned this is because Iowa City’s assessment in FY 09 was $21,000 and is also an entitlement community so it does not utilize most of the services. He said he is not sure how the Iowa City City Council will decide this and doesn’t know if they are aware of it. Yapp is presenting this to the JCCOG Board next week and wanted to make sure the Board was aware of this issue.
East Central Iowa Council of Governments Executive Director Doug Elliott said every county other than Johnson does it the similarly. The 28E agreement allows the Regional Planning Committee to be a part of ECICOG and at the absence of the Regional Planning Commission the Board of Supervisors is the member and in the absence of that then each individual jurisdiction is a member. Every other county in the region has the Board of Supervisors as their member of ECICOG. Each of those has the opportunity to assess that back to their local jurisdiction if they choose. Each county gets a share of the assessment and how they choose to use that money is up to them. In the other 5 counties the invoice goes to the county Board of Supervisors and is paid by the county. To his knowledge in Johnson County the assessment is restructured at the local level and assessed back.
R. Sullivan asked if the Johnson County assessment is around $45,000. Elliott said yes. Neuzil asked if the Johnson County portion comes out of the Rural Fund. Stutsman said she didn’t think the services are just to those in the unincorporated area. Elliott said there are two levels of assessment and Johnson County assesses part of it back to Iowa City and the Johnson County unincorporated area pays a lesser assessment rate than the rest of the county. They have assessed the entire population of Johnson County $.3322 per capita. Iowa City and the unincorporated areas of Johnson County pay an additional $.209. Stutsman said she did think it came out of the rural side of the budget. Elliott said they do the same thing in Linn County. In the two metropolitan counties it is intended to be built in the assessment structure that the two metropolitan areas and counties have their own planning staff and utilize the planning and technical services of ECICOG to a lesser extent. So they do pay at a lesser per capita rate than the rest of the county and the other four non-metropolitan counties.
R. Sullivan said there could be difficulty because JCCOG does a two year budget. Yapp as of now Iowa City has already committed to the FY2010 assessment through adoption of the 2009-2010 budget and the upcoming cycle will be the 2010-2011 budget. Stutsman asked if they had another year to work on this. Yapp said if everyone agrees with that yes. There is no questioning ECICOG’s level of service of commitment. Every municipality that he has talked to is happy with their services especially in the past summer. It is a question of how the assessments are done and not a question of the level of services. Harney said he thinks it is a fair assessment in that the communities pay their own and the County pays for the rural and unincorporated portion. It doesn’t necessarily mean that Johnson County or the other counties are right or wrong; it’s just a matter of choice of how the assessment is put in place. He said that he likes they way it is done in Johnson County.
Stutsman asked if anyone knows how it was determined. Yapp said he talked to his predecessor and was told this is how it was done. When the structure was set up the member of the Board at that time chose to do it this way. Elliott said the two founding organizations of ECICOG were the Linn County Regional Planning Commission and Johnson County Regional Planning Commission. He believes that when Iowa City became NPO and it went from a Regional Planning Commission to ECICOG, in essence JCCOG was contracting with ECICOG a service that JCCOG would have to create to provide itself. He thinks that just went into that assessment structure because that is how services are budgeted anyway. Stutsman said ECICOG is pivotal in SEATS funding and asked if Iowa City buys their own transit. Yapp said that Iowa City contracts with Johnson County SEATS for paratransit services. Stutsman said it sounds like Iowa City says they don’t get any services from ECICOG. Yapp said they get few direct services but because of the relationship there are indirect services. He said no one is questioning that but it is a question of how the assessments are done. What he encourages that for the FY2010 budget everything stays the same but give themselves time in 2009 to reassess the assessments, how they are done, and if there is a better way to do it.
Harney said if Iowa City doesn’t feel they are utilizing the full service of ECICOG and it is not worth their investment, then why is it up to Johnson County to pay Iowa City’s portion. Yapp said it is the City of Iowa City questioning the population based assessment. The population of Iowa City uses ECICOG services less than the population of Coralville. R. Sullivan said it is understandable why they are doing this because in all the other cases the county pays but he agrees with Harney that their way is better. Stutsman said they could make the reverse argument about how many services do they receive from JCCOG versus Iowa City and is that assessment fair. They do get some services but often go through ECICOG. Neuzil said ultimately this comes to funding and who pays. Right now other counties pay so Johnson County should pay. This process has worked in sharing the cost. If the situation comes up where Iowa City doesn’t want to pay as much as they used to but it does mean the Board will be looking at different funding if they get into this.
Harney asked what happens if Iowa City decides not to pay and Johnson County doesn’t pay for them. Elliott said he can’t answer that completely because it requires policy discussion at the ECICOG Board. Because they have done it differently they need to keep in mind that ECICOG was founded under all for one and one for all and that is how the other counties do it. He thinks it would be fair for them to step back and ask questions. There was a county a few years ago that went through their budget process and decided they were only going to pay 98 percent of their assessment. The ECICOG Board said to either pay 100% or nothing. That might not be the response but the ECICOG Board would need to have that discussion. If the $21,000 was extracted and Iowa City wasn’t a participant then direct services wouldn’t be provided. Currently they are working with Iowa City on the City’s Hazard Mitigation Plan and assisting the Salvation Army with a Community Needs Assessment. There are a lot of services and opportunities ECICOG provides to the region. He said that legally they couldn’t prohibit Iowa City from participating in things like the Public Leadership Group or $1.6 million Revolving Loan Fund for Business Assistance. That is Federal Money and the Department of Economic Development might say you can’t not fund business in Iowa City because Iowa City doesn’t belong to ECICOG, but they might structure that assessment differently. Or with the new efforts that are in coordination between the two metropolitan areas with the mobility managers. When they get into this process it will be complicated and if anything it is too complicated to be solved by March 15, 2009.
Neuzil said any time they are looking for ways to manage budgets they have to reevaluate where spending is going. He thinks the system is working and if Iowa City does choose not to participate it could have to sever the services Iowa City is getting from ECICOG. Stutsman said this is too big of an issue to be discussed and resolved at this meeting. This should be studied and decided what is the fair and equitable way to move forward. It is also good to look at these things every once in a while and this is an opportunity to assess what they are doing since things have changed. R. Sullivan said he agrees with Harney that Lone Tree, Tiffin, and Swisher pay a small fee but it is a buy-in saying they are part of this. Stutsman said that since they have money involved they should expect to have services. Elliott said there needs to be a regional discussion at the ECICOG Policy Board and a local discussion as well. If they want to see the financial impact of the way they do it now they go to the JCCOG budget document.
Neuzil said that when they look at committee structures for next year they would transfer over. R. Sullivan said he was asking because the idea is that when you represent at JCCOG they vote the way they are going to vote unless this group has said vote a certain way. He was wondering if there was a sense from people to support anything in particular. Stutsman said she supported moving ahead with a committee to review the process but no action. Yapp said questions how the assessments are structured are coming from the Iowa City City Manager, not necessarily the Council. The Council will be discussing this at their budget discussions in January. Elliott said he hasn’t had a similar conversation with the Council. He also said Henry Herwig is the current chair of ECICOG and is from Johnson County and traditionally the Chair serves two consecutive terms.
Facilities Director David Kempf the SEATS Secondary Roads open house was delayed because of the ice storm. He is hoping the geothermal system in the garage is up and going on December 10, 2008 and as soon as that is working they can start parking the vehicles in the garage. They could have been parking in there but as soon as they do they have to say they have reached substantial completion which releases them from having any liquidated damages. He hasn’t been willing to do that because it is a big component and is hoping to hit that mark this week. They have tentatively scheduled the open house for December 16, 2008 at 4 p.m.
Kempf said that the Health and Human Services Building is moving along well but not as well as he would like. He discussed with the owner of Tricon concerns about meeting their target date of the first week in January and was assured by the owner that they would get there even if they needed to bring in additional subcontractors. The concern now is attention to detail. He and Gary Landhauser from Novak Design Group made punch lists. He is going into offices looking for nitpick things and has all the confidence that there were will be a great end product. It is the speed at which things are happening that is frustrating. He told the owner he wouldn’t be doing his job if he didn’t voice his concerns. They will be touching base regularly so they know where everything is at.
Kempf said that furniture is being installed on the first floor and every open storage space is filled with furniture for the second floor. The elevator inspections aren’t done yet so they won’t turn on the elevators. On December 11, 2008 someone will be there to run the elevator so they can get the furniture upstairs. He is very optimistic that they are going to meet the date but it will just take a lot of work to get there. They are going to have exterior and landscape work done in the spring. The sidewalks and concrete work will be done. They are still discussing the pervious concrete and said they can use ground heaters to warm up the ground that they can do everything. If they do go through with it even though it is cold and there is an issue it will be taken care of. The other option would be to wait until spring but he hopes to get it in. Stutsman asked if they would have to pay anther month’s rent. Kempf said their leases go through the end of January. R. Sullivan asked if there will be enough time to be able to clean those buildings. Kempf said yes as long as they stay on schedule.
Kempf said that the only office that is going to move between Christmas and New Years is the HIV Clinic because their lease is done at the end of December. There are only four of them, they don’t have that much stuff, and their space will be ready. Empowerment will be another one and is two people. They normally go on vacation so their things will be in their offices when they get back and they will have an occupancy permit by then. He didn’t want to move the mass of people during the holiday season because it is too stressful. He hopes to move DHS, MH/DS, and Public Health during the first week of January. There are two moving companies so there should be enough people. Meyers asked who was moving the furniture. Kempf said the supplier Office Elements will be doing the installation.
Neuzil asked for a progress report on the outside of the building, the ramp, and the skywalk. Kempf said everything was poured on the ramp except the two islands that hold the mechanism for the key card access gates. There is sidewalk on the west side and one spot on the northeast side of the ramp to put in and the corner stops on the southeast and southwest corners. All the drive is poured and all the parking is poured except for the section of pervious concrete. They have made the penetration into the main building for the skywalk. They are currently working on putting in the doorway and the expansion joints in between the two. Their contract has them putting in three steps to come down to level. The plan is not to open that up until they move the City Assessor out of their space. They have closed off a 10X10 space in that office and when they are done installing the door and the steps they will either lock the door or will remove it all together. If they don’t feel that is secure enough they will take the 10X10 area to a 2X10 area because they don’t want people coming into the City Assessor’s Office from the other building. That way they can stay there until they are relocated.
Neuzil asked if that will be accessible. Kempf replied that when they do the remodel the plans call for it to be three steps down and ramp. All the siding and steel was on the sky walk but isn’t anymore because they had not installed the vapor barrier and insulation. He said this would be a good opportunity for the Board to do a walk through. They are finishing up plans for the main building and getting costs estimates and bids to bring in front of the Board soon. Neuzil asked if Kempf is taking care of the sidewalk issue at Camp Cardinal. Kempf said they are taking care of that and asked for an update on the three houses on Capitol Street. R. Sullivan said there is an agreement on the agenda for Thursday. Meyers said he talked to the property manager of those and said they have the keys and said that someone from the County was supposed to do a walk through. Meyers told him that they hadn’t finalized anything. R. Sullivan said that Assistant County Attorney Andy Chappell is supposed to get final approval on Thursday. Kempf said he will talk to him so figure out when they need to start taking care of the sidewalks and make sure buildings are winterized. He hopes to drain waterlines and close them for the winter.
R. Sullivan said that there has been debate between Susan Jutz and the Planning and Zoning Administrator on whether or not there was a need to a Conditional Use Permit for some of the activities that take place as part of the CSA. Jutz is saying that she is a farmer and doesn’t have to comply with this and Planning and Zoning Administrator Rick Dvorak interpreted that she does need the permit. Susan Jutz said the letter from Dvorak stated that she needs a Conditional Use Permit for any and all farm tours and her Harvest Party activities. This concerns her because what she does on her farm is educational. She handed out a packet about what the Field Specialist for Iowa State Extension is doing. There are examples of field days and farms tours that are being held in this area and surrounding counties. She asked Field Specialist Jim Faucet how this interpretation of the Code would impact what he does and he said it would discourage anyone from holding a tour. Jutz asked him why these activities were important and he said they are for producers and the goal of these farm events, tours, and field days are two improve economic viability of farmers in the counties and to educate.
Jutz said she is an established producer and couldn’t survive without having more farm events. There are two things that would be extremely detrimental if that would happen. Most of the activity on their farm educates consumers who then look for local food products and many people who attend her field day are young producers. She currently has a SAR grant which is a USDA grant from Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education and a primary component is for her farm to draw in young producers and assist them in starting farms. It is critical to educating people by having them come on the farm. Jutz said if she had to pay $260 every time she has a farm tour or an event on her farm then she will stop having them. Her grant from the USDA will not include that fee in the budget. She is concerned about the impact of this on all farmers. The field days impact all areas of agriculture and Iowa State Extension and the Farm Bureau sponsor many events around the State. Syngenta and Dow sponsor the food at these events. Many other agriculture groups including NRCS and DNR also sponsor these types of events. Jutz believes that people aren’t going to want to sponsor these kinds of event in Johnson County if they are going to be required to have a Conditional Use Permit. These are agriculture activities and they are critical to what is happening in this County and this State in terms of agriculture. There is a precedent of education farmers this way.
R. Sullivan asked professor and farmer Laura Krouse if there was anything she wanted to add. Laura Krouse said that farmers learn how to farm by visiting other farms. It is absolutely basic to the function of agriculture to train other people to take over when they retire and they have to be able to show them what to do. It is expensive to spend $260 for a permit and there isn’t a line drawn on what activities need this permit. As a policy it deadens the spirit of people saying they want to be a farmer, grow food for people, or commodity crops. It is good economic development to produce farmers and it makes everything less likely to succeed with a policy like this.
Harney said he sees a difference between an event and a field day. The seed corn companies have plot tests when everyone comes to see what is going on with production and fertilizers that goes a portion of the day. When it goes on a full day or beyond there are issues with restrooms and facilities. Jutz responded that when there are going to be more people than what is appropriate to come into the house to use the bathroom they rent a Porta Potty and there is a hand washing station. They also handle parking. Everything is set up in advance to be handled. She said she is familiar with the kinds of field days and events that Practical Farmers of Iowa hold and they are well managed along the same lines. If it is a one hour event, a pasture walk, or an all day event all of those things are taken into consideration and she has no problem with having to follow that kind of guideline. Harney said that he has attended several of those and he doesn’t see a problem with a short term event. The long term events and parking can become an issue.
Krouse said if she goes to a seed field day at a neighbor’s they park in the field and if there are a lot of people there is a porta potty. People will tell them about the research they are doing and there is some food. To her it is the same kind of event. Harney responded he thinks there is a difference when there are vendors serving food and there are health issues and health inspections. There are snacks at many of these which are fine but when they are selling food then it becomes another issue. Krouse said that doesn’t usually happen at farmer open houses and there haven’t ever been at ones she has attended.
Planning and Zoning Administrator Rick Dvorak said when this started two or three years ago there was some discussion that they felt there is a difference between conventional farming and what was actually being done on this farm. The response that they made to the original letter Jutz sent to the Board outlined their concerns and what they felt should be done. She was given the caveat which is normal with any difference opinion with Planning and Zoning’s decision. There is a process that should be followed and that process is going to the Board of Adjustment for interpretation. They feel that this is a major question not only to Johnson County but in other communities. Assistant Planning and Zoning Administrator R.J. Moore said what they are talking about is something that Planning and Zoning Administrators across the State have been discussing. He said he shared some recent emails with the Board members on Ag exemption issues.
Moore said he believed that debating this issue with Jutz is counter productive because there is a process set by State code. When a person disagrees with an interpretation by the Zoning Administrator they go to the Board of Adjustment. The Board of Adjustment could agree with Jutz that she is ag exempt and there would be no further fees for conditional use permits. Everyone they deal with believes they are exempt from the ordinances. An example is a person with ten acres and a goat believes he is exempted because he thinks he is agricultural. Ordinances and State code are set up on traditional farming which is the large industrial type farming where the farmer produces and takes the product to a site in town which is then sent to manufacturers or people who process that.
Moore said they are starting to see changes and methods and are getting smaller farmers that want to produce and sell locally which they support. As the Zoning Administrator, Dvorak interprets ordinances for 130,000 people and not one individual. The ordinances are set up on State code and when someone disagrees with his interpretation they don’t go to the Board of Supervisors or Zoning Commission, they go to the Board of Adjustment and that’s what they want Jutz to do. That way when the Board of Adjustment sets a precedent either agreeing or disagreeing they will know how to move forward. If they agree with Jutz that she is ag exempt for all of these activities then they would come back to the Board or the Zoning Commission and say that they need to revise the ordinances.
Moore thinks they are making errors especially with the Fall Party she suggests. Basically they are bring many city people into a rural area that aren’t used to hilly gravel roads with no shoulder and they are there at night. Those are reasons why they thought about having a Conditional Use Permit. They are here to promote and protect public health, safety, and welfare. The Board of Adjustment could overrule them. Planning and Zoning doesn’t have a stake in this other than how they interpret and administer their ordinances. R. Sullivan asked if they have had similar applications or things that have come to their attention where they didn’t have to apply. Dvorak said there really isn’t much of a history because this ordinance has only been in place for four years.
Dvorak said that in 95% of the cases they get the application, they go in front of the Board of Adjustment and they move on. If there is a question they try to resolve it the best they can. He believes two or three years ago this question came up. The applicant was going to make an application and nothing happened. He met with a couple Supervisors and nothing happened again and then saw this on the agenda today. They were perplexed because they gave a couple options in the letter which was to make an application and go through the process or to appeal the decision and go through that process. That is how they handle 99% of the cases that they can’t resolve.
Moore said in the spring someone for Jutz came in and they talked about the Conditional Use Permit and she was helping her put together a request for a Conditional Use Permit. The only stake they have in this is ordinance protection. He would disagree as an employee administrating their ordinances for proposed uses but still helps people do the applications to get what they want to use ordinances and policies to put forth their best effort. Jutz was going to do it but it never happened. They think the debate is counter productive because they aren’t the people to settle this. As the Board can see their Administrator is not changing his position. R. Sullivan said the Board needs to see what processes have been done and what hasn’t been done.
Neuzil said all the Conditional Use Permits go through the Board of Adjustment. They know that and changed the rule on that and every county does that now. The question is when someone like Jim Fawcett from Iowa State University Extension wants to do a field day or showing a different type of tilling is that exempt from Conditional Uses. Another example would be the Chamber of Commerce in a different county went to someone’s farm and they were showed how they have free range chickens. Would that farmer in Johnson County have to apply for a Conditional Use Permit and what is the cutoff. Dvorak said that is the point that they are presenting. The process is that someone contacts them with a similar question. They are told to in writing specifically identify what that is going to be if there is a question that he can’t answer yes or no to right away. When there is a question that can’t be resolved and there hasn’t even been a line drawn.
Neuzil said someone who is going to have three or four cars at their farm isn’t going to call them. Dvorak said no and when they started this they went through many types of questions the Board had. Chappell helped them try to respond to some of those questions of what qualifies as a special exception or a special use. They tried to identify the best they could for the Board so they would feel comfortable changing the ordinance. They obviously couldn’t think of everything. When it comes to things like a wedding party or barn party neighbors have and things that they discussed would be exempt. If a seed corn salesman has ham sandwiches for everyone he is trying to sell to at that time they wouldn’t have to do that. If they were going to have a band and provide other types of things then they would need one.
Neuzil said that part of what this is sounds like they aren’t talking about demonstrations but if they are adding food and a band. Then it turns from field demonstration to a festival. Dvorak said generally that is true. It is left up to interpretation on each specific case and generally a seed corn salesman who has a meal is exempt. If six people go to Stutsman’s farm and she shows them how they do their livestock he doesn’t think that is an event. R. Sullivan said that one of the issues is that there are people who do stuff who don’t tell them about it and they know what Jutz does because it is advertised. They can only deal with what is in front of them. They would like everyone to clarify what they are doing with them. Dvorak said if they get complaints and concerns from the Health Department of activities then they investigate.
Dvorak said that recently they had one from law enforcement that was disappointing and they tried to make contact. By the time they figured out the dates it was over. Next year they will discuss it and that’s how they do it. Normally if someone comes in and says they are having an event next week and didn’t know about getting a Conditional Use Permit then they would be exempt for one year. That is what happened in this case. They were exempt for one year assuming they would come in and get the necessary permit for the following year. They try to work closely with people to make this decision and in most cases if it is borderline they recommend they go to the Board of Adjustment because they want that interpretation.
Harney asked if Jutz’s event was a night event. Jutz responded that she has multiple events on her farm. In June she held a field day that was sponsored by Practical Farmers of Iowa and Iowa State which was an event that went into the evening like many pasture walks do because people stayed to talk. Farmers can only come at certain times and many farmers that come to their events also work full time jobs. They find it to be advantageous for them to hold a supper and a field walk. It is very common and directed to the type of farmers they work with. Her September event which was cancelled this year goes into the evening as well. It is over about nine o’clock because many of the people who come have little kids so most people are leaving between eight and nine o’clock.
Jutz said she did not contact them originally because she didn’t know about this. She was contacted and it was very confusing. She is very busy and didn’t go in to meet with them. Laura Dowd who is involved with the Local Food Connection and often participates with them in events did go talk with them and came back with a confusing amount of information so they decided to send the letter and ask for clarification. It concerned her because even though she is not a traditional farmer she does farm. She does it to make a living and to support her family. Had she not been able to hold these events in the past she would not be farming or successful in what she is doing. Not only does she contribute to her own income but also to the income of many families.
Neuzil said that when there is a festival and there are a lot of cars things need to be discussed. Jutz responded that is not what the letter says and it is not just about her festival. All of her events include a farm tour and they are no different from the other farms tours that they mentioned. R. Sullivan said she should go to the Board of Adjustment and to Fawcett or anyone else she thinks does the same things and try to get an exemption that says everything she is doing is ag and that she is exempt. Dvorak said that’s what they have asked. R. Sullivan said they have just redone a lot of their Land Use Plan and there are pieces of it that are helpful to people who are trying to do what Jutz is doing. They probably need to have some dialogue about what is good and what isn’t and if that is called to the Board’s attention they can work with Planning and Zoning to figure what is good for everybody. In terms of the specific question of is Jutz doing ag, he thinks the law is such that she has no choice but to go to the Board of Adjustment to get that decision. R. Sullivan said that doesn’t mean that they are done because he thinks that this group does want to promote what Jutz is doing. They need to know the places where they have failed to live up to that and where they can do better. Dvorak said that there is a line and they need to know where that line stops. 90% of what they look at is the public health, safety, and welfare of the community. That includes the roads, law enforcement, security, and the Health Department. These are the people they work with on a Conditional Use Permit. If they see food or give food away the Health Department may want to be involved. If there isn’t adequate parking law enforcement many want to be involved. It there isn’t adequate dust control on a gravel road Secondary Roads might want to be involved. The process is protecting public health and safety.
Moore said they aren’t disagreeing that most of what Jutz does is ag exempt. There are farm tours and people come to seed demonstrations which are a part of agricultural. There are some questions about the other events. It is a decision they feel is important because it sets a precedent. R. Sullivan asked if some of the events they thought were exempt and some were not. Moore said yes. Dvorak said the Board of Adjustment would help them make the clarification which then they would come back to the Board and either look at the Land Use Plan or make some direct ordinance changes. Until the Board of Adjustment gives them some direction they are staying with what their decision is today.
Krouse said she is glad they are working on their Lund Use Plan and having farmers who do this kind of business in the discussion. One thing that might happen is that sometimes they don’t realize something is going to be a problem until it is so it isn’t easily written in. She urges the Board to be generous and open minded in policy making so that if there is a farm event and the neighbor kids who have a family chamber orchestra there it is still a farm event. When they are making policy they can be generous and recognize this as a farm event even though there hasn’t been one like it before, it is still promoting agriculture.
Neuzil said they also need to be careful of someone trying to have a festival and calling it something for agriculture. It is tough in a college community that is always looking for venues for bands as Johnson County becomes more restrictive in a lot of measures because that is the way society is now. When it comes to liability on roads and if cars are going to sit on road or the public health issue because things aren’t like they used to be. Meyers said that since he has been there he has been impressed with how ingenious people can be at maneuvering around rules and ordinances. That is why some of these interpretations are helpful because it clarifies the situation.
Krouse said one of the things Practical Farmers of Iowa did to decide who was a farmer was to file a Schedule F on their tax return. R. Sullivan said they have a lot of discussions about these types of things. Everyone wants the same outcome and they just have to figure out how to get there. The one piece that he hadn’t realized was that a piece of this is with the Board of Adjustment to determine. He thinks they appoint reasonable people to that and Jutz has a very good case in front of them.
Dvorak said that he spent a Saturday at an event to make the determination if it would need a Conditional Use Permit. He worked with the people and determined they would need the permit and they got one. R. Sullivan said they appreciate what people are doing with things that are exempt for example making sure there aren’t a lot of cars parked on a gravel road. Moore said that their administrators have to be unbiased about everything but personal thoughts tend to leak into things. He has spoken about large socialized distribution services and is very supportive of growing and consuming locally. He doesn’t want to have to be at the will of an out of state or country producer to get what is needed and he likes this concept.
Moore said that going back to Dvorak’s charge as the administrator, all they want Jutz to do is go to the Board of Adjustment and let them determine that. If they determine negatively to her they would probably come to the Board and say they need to find a way to accomplish this. R. Sullivan said it would mean a change of ordinances. Moore said yes. This is a precedent setter for them and what they say to one person they have to say to everyone. Over the last three years they have been permitting Conditional Use Permits on farms for concerts. People are getting ingenious on how to get around ordinances and those are there to protect people. They are not vested in this but they would like the process followed. R. Sullivan said that they are going to encourage Jutz to go to the Board of Adjustment. They will see what they say and move forward from there. The Board would like Jutz’s input regardless of what they say because she isn’t the only person in this situation.
Jutz said it has been helpful. Her biggest fear was going to the Board of Adjustment and failing. She feels that would be a failure for everyone who is doing this in the County. Being offered the option suggested if they fail they could come back. She wants to know that somewhere she can continue to pursue this. Meyers said from her letter there was a reference she didn’t want to go to the Boar d of Adjustment because it was an admission of being abnormal. He suggests to carry in the notion she would be helping them define this so it includes situations like hers but is tightly enough constructed so people can’t call themselves ag when they aren’t.
Moore said they are not saying it’s abnormal it is just that they are having a disagreement about what is ag exempt. An example is a farmer uses large machinery to farm so then he starts selling machinery on his farm. He says he is ag exempt because it is farm equipment. But that is not ag exempt and they need to define those things so they can be fair. If she decides she wants to make an application they would sit down with her to help her go through the ordinances and policies so she can do what she needs to continue. R. Sullivan said they can also help her with the process of going to the Board of Adjustment and what steps need to be taken. Jutz said that her understanding is that she goes to the Board of Adjustment and doesn’t need to fill out an application first. Moore said she is disagreeing with their interpretation of their ordinance so she would have to file an application to go to them and state her case about why she disagrees. Jutz said she filed with them and she doesn’t need to file for a Conditional Use Permit. Moore said no and this is an interpretation issue. Moore said that is almost the same cost as a Conditional Use Permit because there a lot of people in the County that have to spend time reviewing the application.
Recessed at 10:23 a.m.; reconvened at 10:32 a.m.
County Engineer Greg Parker said that last year there was an operator that was doing things on the Level B road on Johnson/Cedar County line east of Sutliff at the end of 145th Street that they weren’t aware of and the new operator started following the policy. Last winter was the last bad winter in many years and the lady living on the road was used to a level of service that shouldn’t have been provided, which was that the operator was plowing the snow on a Level B road. R. Sullivan said on this road in 1996 a bridge washed out in Cedar County. Cedar County said they weren’t going to replace it making the only way to get and access the field is go in and out through Johnson County. There is now no Cedar County way to get to this part of Cedar County. Parker said they have to get to 145th Street which is the Level A portion of the road to get anywhere. R. Sullivan said they have to go a couple 100 feet into Johnson County to access the property.
Parker said because there is a 28E agreement Cedar County said to deal with it however they wanted. Under the agreement they take care of it how they would take care of any other situation. Parker said they do that with adjoining counties and there are maintenance 28E agreements to make sense of why they would want to dead head a motor grater to get there because there is now an easy way to get there. Secondary Roads Maintenance Supervisor Kevin Hackathorn said that Cedar County has jurisdiction and did the maintenance on 145th before the bridge fell. Parker said Cedar County’s Level B Ordinance is almost identical to Johnson County. R. Sullivan said the person who retired new this woman and would turn around there. He plowed it and wasn’t supposed to.
Parker said the issue is that she is requesting that they increase the level of service above the Level B Ordinance and he doesn’t have the authority to do. She has requested that they plow snow, blade it more often, and that they put rock down. Neuzil responded that she has requested Johnson County to fix a road in Cedar County. R. Sullivan said in exchange she is proposing to put a driveway in and asking Johnson County to vacate the road. Neuzil said they have jurisdiction for maintenance and asked how they have any right-of-way inside Cedar County. R. Sullivan said Cedar County will probably defer to whatever Johnson County does. Referring to the map Neuzil said the top of the page is Cedar County and the bottom page is Johnson County and the drive way goes into Cedar County. Parker said they weren’t doing anything on the drive and it was the Level B portion of the road that leads to the driveway. The driveway adjoins and the Level B starts at 145th.
Neuzil said part of the road is within Johnson County and half is within Cedar County. Parker said half of the right-of-way is in Cedar County. Stutsman asked if all the area on the east side was her property. Parker said he wasn’t sure but believed she said she owned 80 acres. R. Sullivan referring to the map said the house pictured owns one side and she owns the other side. Stutsman asked if there was access to any of the property that needs to come off of the Level B road. Parker’s understanding is that she can access off of 145th. R. Sullivan says she wants to put the driveway in then technically they could vacate the road. Parker said they are only talking about the Level B portion.
Harney asked which portion is Level B. Parker responded the section south of 145th Street. Harney asked if there were any property owners that would be affected. Parker said there are property owners on the west side that are in Johnson County. R. Sullivan said that is the house on the upper left of the map. Harney said they can’t eliminate access to anything further. R. Sullivan said you can’t get there because the bridge is out. He has talked to these people for a while and said it is a lot like Eagle Avenue. She has the same complaint which is this is the only way and they should take care of the road better. She is willing to build a driveway and she just wants Johnson County to plow this winter because it is still her only way in and out this winter. In the spring she would construct a driveway. Meyers said the Level B road would become her driveway and she would pay for the upgrade. R. Sullivan said she was going to put in a different driveway because she doesn’t get along with the people in the other house.
Stutsman said she should vacate it now. Harney said if Johnson County vacates it then half goes to her and half goes to the neighbor so she wouldn’t have a driveway and she needs to build herself a driveway. Parker said they have been successful in road vacations to write an agreement as part of the vacation that the road remains an access for both properties and becomes a private lane. R. Sullivan said they could do that and tell them to fight it out. Stutsman said they have said it is not their role to mediate between two people. She is interested in the County’s interest and not about the neighbor situation. Looking at this Johnson County doesn’t get any taxes from this person because she is in Cedar County. She asked why Johnson County has a responsibility to maintain a road for her to access her property when they aren’t getting any money for it. She said that the lady should deal with Cedar County because this is their issue.
Neuzil asked for clarification how many houses there were. Parker said one is a house and two are garages. The neighbor lives on 145th and that is a Level A gravel road. Harney asked where that stops. Parker said 145th dead ends to the County line and that is where the Level A stops. If you go south that is where the level B starts and it goes to the point of where the driveway would be. Neuzil said she is asking that the bend be plowed and then vacated in the spring. He asked if they plow any of the requests they have gotten for a Level B road because he is looking precedent. Parker said no. Neuzil said it doesn’t sound like the Board would make an exception. R. Sullivan said they made an exception for Eagle Avenue and paid for half the rock. Meyers said a difference there is that those are properties paying taxes to Johnson County.
Stutsman said it is an unfortunate circumstance but doesn’t see what the County’s role is. Meyers said they shouldn’t be responsible for seeing that she has access to her property in Cedar County. If she wants the road cleared she should hire a service. R. Sullivan said they have some level of responsibility because of the maintenance agreement with Cedar County. Stutsman asked if that was for the Level B portion. Parker said that is because the Level B portion is in Cedar County. Harney asked if that includes snow removal. Parker said no. R. Sullivan said if they vacate the road there is no more agreement with Cedar County. Parker said it would be the same with Cedar County. Harney asked what the agreement with Cedar County was. Parker answered it is a 28E agreement. R. Sullivan said Cedar County has the same Level B standards.
Hackathorn said there six or seven miles that are shared. Parker said there are other roads that are shared. On those roads whether it is Cedar County or Johnson County, the same with any other county line agreements, they would be responsible for maintenance. The maintenance would follow their maintenance activity and not Johnson County’s. Johnson County’s Level B Ordinance is almost identical to Cedar County’s which is no maintenance other than once or twice a year. There is no snow removal and no rock. He talked to Cedar County Engineer Robert Fangmann and asked him about their road vacation activities. Parker said Fangmann referenced their history is similar to Johnson County where is they have 100% agreement from the property owners the Board has vacated and he and brought up the Board can vacate a road without the property owner’s agreement. The issue is going to be if Cedar County wants to do that.
R. Sullivan said there is no County interest and for the benefit of 130,000 people as opposed to the few people that do benefit from it he thinks the Board should vacate it. Stutsman agreed. Neuzil asked if they can vacate since only half is in Johnson County. Parker said Johnson County can vacate their interest only. R. Sullivan said then they would ask Cedar County to do the same. Parker said usually when they do a road vacation whether it is their entire jurisdiction or if there are different property owners on both sides they go to the center of the right-of-way. One half of that right-of-way goes to each of the property owners which means that the other property owner doesn’t have jurisdiction over the other side of the road. It could be a dirt road, trail, or just grass and it becomes private property which means they could put a fence down the middle. If there is one property owner on both sides then they get all of it.
Neuzil said they should vacate the road and is in favor of vacating Level B roads if they aren’t going to fix them. Stutsman agreed and thinks it is too much of a liability because people build on them and expect service. She also believes this is Cedar County’s problem and she should have talked to Cedar County. R. Sullivan said it was Level A when there was a bridge and after it fell Cedar County made it Level B. Harney said referring to the map that they need to know what the rest of the line is. It appears that there is right-of-way to the east of it. The line seems to follow the road and then looks like it ties into others and that would be apart of a vacation process. R. Sullivan looking at the map said there is nothing there but the river. Harney said if there is right-of-way then they need to vacate it. Stutsman asked if they wanted to give direction to Secondary Roads to maintain the County's Level B Policy.
R. Sullivan said they have a request from her so they have to let Parker know how to respond to that. The Board also has to decide if they want to vacate. Stutsman said they are going to maintain their Level B Policy and immediately proceed with vacation. Harney said he prefers to do the vacation but they need to work with them on how to get in and out. The residents know it is coming and it is their responsibility after this winter. Meyers asked if Secondary Roads is clearing snow through this winter. Parker said that is what the request was. Meyers asked if drivers have trouble getting up and down the road. Parker said the overgrowth has made it so they couldn't their equipment down the road and she trimmed her trees. Harney said his concern was that if they vacate it they are going to be shut off and think they are owed something.
Meyers asked if there is a snow plow out to the end of 145th is it an option to go down 1,000 feet turning around in her yard in the process clearing the snow and then charging her for it. Hackathorn they were talking about getting off of her property coming off the right-of-way and turning around in her drive way. Parker said that's how the operator did it before. Hackathorn said they were upset that they made a turn a round into 145 street so the snow plow could turn around and not go down to her drive way to turn around. She said the truck and trailer turned around to pick up the equipment to build the turn around and the vehicle got on her property.
Neuzil said she would be the one requesting the road vacation and not the Board. Stutsman said it bothers her that she wants to wait until spring so it is to her advantage. R. Sullivan said last time both people were there and they explained there are three options: Johnson County keeps it the way it is and it is a Level B, Johnson County upgrades the road to a gravel road, or they vacate the road. Basically they told her the chances of Johnson County upgrading the road were none. Of the two remaining options she was in favor of vacating and asked if the County would plow this winter. Harney asked if the person on 145th was okay with the vacating. R. Sullivan said she would rather keep it the same but also doesn't need it to access anything. Parker said she didn't say either way but he also got the impression she would like to keep it the same.
Stutsman said what she is asking the County to do and how it would be explained to a taxpayer is that she is asking the County to provide one individual who lives in Cedar County road clearance for the winter. Harney said maybe Cedar County would help share it. Stutsman said if they decide to do this then they should charge her for maintaining that road. Neuzil said the Board should follow their policy that this is a Level B road and those aren’t plowed. If she wants to make a request for road vacation then she can make the request. Stutsman said to go ahead with the road vacation. Neuzil replied no then they would have to pay. R. Sullivan said they wouldn’t have to pay anything and they can vacate a road it they want to. Stutsman said they don't have to have consent of adjoining landowners. Harney asked when the bridge went out. R. Sullivan responded it was in 1996 or 1997.
Neuzil asked if the County needs permission if it chooses to not own a road anymore. He also asked if the land get reverted back to the landowners with or without their permission. Parker said the Board has the right to do that if that's what they want. Stutsman said their policy has been that they want landowners to agree but it is not required. Harney said the owner can come back and ask it to be restored like taking the ditches out. Parker said if the landowners are not willing to vacate and the Board decides to do it anyway there is a clause in the Code where they could come and ask for damages. Neuzil said that would be where they would wait for their request rather than the Board's. Stutsman said anyone can file a claim even if it is voluntary. Parker said that's correct and typically if everyone signed off on it is harder to agree.
Neuzil said Secondary Roads needs to communicate with their drivers and give them a reminder about what roads they are plowing. Parker said they do and they found things the driver was doing in the past. Harney asked who was plowing it now. Parker said nobody is plowing it. Harney said with the last storm they were able to get in and out without any service. Hackathorn said she is in Des Moines and she rents the house. Stutsman said that is part of being a landlord. Neuzil said it is something that was getting down and now it isn't. Hackathorn said there was a person who worked in that area for 30 years who was taking care of his buddies and they do relay this. When there was a new operator he said he couldn't get down the road because trees were hitting his machine. Neuzil said they need to talk to the thirty year employees too and say if they are doing some things they need to stop.
Parker said they do that. Stutsman said the same thing happened with Eagle Avenue where there was a former maintenance person who would go through there. Hackathorn said they used to plow that until they changed how they did Level B roads. Harney said his suggestion is that Secondary Roads submits a vacation request to the Board for this section of the road and if they object then the Board can deal with it. Parker said they have received a formal request for the road but doesn't know how to legally accept a vacation request for a resident not of Johnson County. Harney said for Secondary Roads to recommend the vacation to the Board and send the letters out. Then they can come in and object. R. Sullivan said to put it on the Board agenda to vacate and then it is their request. Harney said usually is comes from Secondary Roads. R. Sullivan said that's how they did it for Eagle Avenue. It was their inanition but it didn't pass.
R. Sullivan said the two issues are still that Parker needs to respond to the request and Board needs to decide if they want to vacate. He asked if the Board wants to honor anything in her request. Harney said not at this point and they need to be in conjunction with Cedar County. Parker said there is one property owner in Cedar County that would be affected and she wants the road vacated. As far as Cedar County is concerned that is the only thing they have jurisdiction over. Harney said they have to do their half. R. Sullivan said he wasn't sure if they do or they let Johnson County do it. Parker said they have to do the same thing and hold a hearing. Stutsman said Johnson County can't just vacate their interest in the road. R. Sullivan said Johnson County can vacate their interest and Cedar County can do what they want. Parker said without their approval they can vacate their interest because it is in Johnson County.
Neuzil said they want to avoid getting charged damages. Parker said this is a legal issue that he hasn’t dealt with. He believes the damages would come from a Johnson County resident and not from Cedar County but anyone can sue for anything. R. Sullivan said she isn't going to sue. Parker said he got the impression she wanted this to be figured out. Stutsman said they are going to maintain the Level B status of this road as far as plowing the road and move ahead with vacation. R. Sullivan responded there will be Level B maintenance and they should move toward vacation. Harney said Parker needs to contact Cedar County so they know what Johnson County is doing so they can decide if they want or don't want to. He would like to know what they want at their meeting. R. Sullivan said he wants to vacate whether or not they want to.
Hackathorn said her concern was with emergency services if there was a snow storm they don’t have any boundaries when it is an emergency. If the sheriff requests they go down that road they'll plow it. It is a timbered area that doesn't accumulate or drift much. Stutsman said it is pretty accessible. Hackathorn replied that she shouldn’t have much trouble. Meyers said if she is renting the house she has some responsibility to the tenant. Stutsman agreed that if she wants emergency access, other people have someone plow their driveways for emergency access. R. Sullivan stated Stutsman is saying to keep things how they are and move to vacate. He agreed with both counts. Harney said they need to contact Cedar County so they know they process. R. Sullivan stated Harney says to keep it the same and only vacate if Cedar County says yes. Meyers and Neuzil agreed with Stutsman. R. Sullivan said Parker can now tell her that they are going to keep doing things the way they do with their Level B policy and will initiate vacation as soon as they can. Parker said he will begin working on that. R. Sullivan asked Parker if he would talk to M. Sullivan about getting this item on the agenda. Parker responded yes.
Meyers left at 11:07 a.m.
R. Sullivan said there is a good chance the incoming administration in Washington D.C. will early on unveil a big infrastructure stimulus package. They are talking about billions of dollars that would probably be run through the state. When the legislators met with Johnson County Harney was making the case to keep the same formula so counties would get the same percentage. The key issue he heard was that there has to be projects that are ready to go right away. Harney asked if they need to have bridges or gravel roads for improvements. R. Sullivan said to have it ready because they don't know. Harney said they have enough in the Five Year Program. Parker said funding issues are something they always deal with. The projects that are ready to go are Lower Six and 965 will be going in the spring. They are talking to a consultant about Oak Crest Hill Road and are looking at a June letting for that. The Black Diamond Bridge is in and they have received the environmental clearances for that. There are lost of things they can get together in four or five months. Their issue is going to be if there are all these projects going the staffing, construction, and maintenance they will need to hire consultants to do the oversight.
R. Sullivan said that might be worth it if they would be able to get the projects paid for. Parker agreed and said it would be a small percentage. Typically to do a full construction design and construction management is 13% to 15% of the total construction cost. Harney said the problem is they don't know how it will be divided and how much Johnson County is going to get. Neuzil said it is good to know about this. From President-Elect Obama attitudes about it is use it or you'll lose it. The biggest thing they can ask from the engineers from the counties is to make sure that all this would stay with the State. It would be easy for the State to replace the dollars they were going to put towards these projects and fill it in with the Federal money. R. Sullivan there is clearly work to do on the State level but there is a huge advantage that the Chair of Appropriations is Senator Dvorsky and he is the one telling the Board to get their projects ready. Harney said there is a whole list and it depends on how they are identified.
Neuzil all of the lists need the environmental clearance and the design. Parker said most of the bridge projects take a lot of time taking things through the Corps and DNR to get permits approved. It is slowing projects down by 6 to 9 months. R. Sullivan said they are talking about things like Oak Crest Hill Road and 965 where a lot of work is done on them. Parker said they are working on them now and they will be ready for a June letting. Parker said the Oak Crest Hill Road project is still a possibility. The environmental things need to be done and are hoping to have it completed by March which may be a June/July letting. There are two bridges that are ready to go for design. If need be the Mehaffey Bridge Activity consultant can be stepped up which is a $4 million project.
R. Sullivan said there is a trail already done and they just haven't received the grant. Parker said he can push them to get that done. There are probably $10 million in projects that can be going by the end of the summer. He said to remember that those projects have dedicated funds too and if they shift funds then those funds will be available for other projects. Stutsman asked where they were on the 5 Year Road Plan. Neuzil said the Board is usually asked for suggestions for them to add roads. Parker said that is correct and they wanted to get together to look at it. The direction from the Board was to get more realistic with projects. It depends if this fund sources comes in it is going to change things. His goal would be to get something to the Board in the next 10 days. R. Sullivan said they are going to have to work on two tracks. Optimistically if this comes they need to be ready for it. They also have to work on the track if nothing comes they have to look at things totally differently.
Parker said the projects he listed are going to if they get the funding or not which are 956, Oak Crest Hill Road, Black Diamond Road, and Oakdale Boulevard. It is hard to even those things out but things like the environmental clearance slow them down. Harney said the downside is with having an influx and finding contractors to do it. Parker said he is hearing favorable things on contracts right now. Some of the options they may want to consider for the Oak Crest Hill Road and 965 project is to give the letting to allow the contractor to do it the following year. The concrete paving and asphalt paving think they will get more favorable bids. So they may get favorable bids but the construction might not be until the following year but if it saves 20% on the project it would be good. Harney said they are still at the will of what fuels are and what petroleum is. Parker said that is a long time out there for people to be projecting costs. R. Sullivan said they are willing to roll it. Parker said he thinks the providers and producers are pushing the associates to get that information out there. R. Sullivan said the Board will keep Parker updated if they hear more.
Stutsman said this issue came up last spring and the Board said they would revisit it and make some decisions about whether they want to consider exemptions for nursery businesses during road embargoes. She said the nursery owner presented a good argument about the timeliness of planting trees. It is very similar to hauling grain and is his biggest time of year. There are just certain times of year when he can plant. The issue is if they want to grant that. She said she doesn't know how many people it would really affect and Pleasant Valley is one. Neuzil asked about the normal weight of a truck like that. R. Sullivan said he was just over the limit. Neuzil asked if it was because he had more than one tree. Stutsman said she thought he had big trees. Parker said he had big trees and also wanted to haul a trailer with trees in it. R. Sullivan said it has a huge spade that plants the trees. Harney said his truck was at the limit and the trees add weight. Neuzil said it is just one tree and asked if they are looking to cut down on trips or if they weren't unable to plant the tree.
R. Sullivan said he couldn't do one tree. Harney said what Rich wanted to do last year was with Newport embargoed and he had a short stretch he wanted to get several trees planted on a timeline. Neuzil said in circumstances where someone wants to pant a large tree they would come to Parker and ask for a permit. Parker said if the road had an embargo on it they would have to get a permit for approval to drive on the road with an embargo. Embargo exceptions are given for septic system issues, oil or propane to heat the house, feed for live stock, hauling cattle, etc. R. Sullivan said Rich's argument is that he is zoned and licensed ag. Stutsman said the other argument is like with the landfill the Board told them smaller trucks but it can't really be done with trees. Neuzil wondered if just every once and awhile there is a large tree that causes him to go over. R. Sullivan said his truck is at the limit so if he puts anything on it he's over. Neuzil asked if he can get a smaller truck to move a large tree.
Harney said it depends on the size of the spade. Parker said it is hard and they did have that conversation. With a truck like this there is a huge spade that goes down and it takes the whole tree and then pushes it back in. Harney said it is something that isn’t done on a trailer because each tree has to be planted with the spade. Neuzil said he was trying to find a fairness thing and this sounds like an agriculture thing. R. Sullivan asked if this was the Board's decision. Harney said it is like they did the garbage trucks. Parker said the Code clearly defines what the exemptions are. R. Sullivan said the Code defines ag as an exemption. Parker said he would give it to Chappell to get his thought on it. Harney said he had a discussion with Chappell before and he leaned that way but they would still want to get an official decision from him. Stutsman asked if there is enough interest from the Board to ask Chappell. R. Sullivan said he would like to ask him. Harney said his problem is that they didn't let the garbage trucks do it with similar weights but if this is an ag activity then it would fit in.
Neuzil said he could argue that this is ok because it is ag. R. Sullivan agreed. Stutsman said there isn't an option for smaller loads. Hackathorn said they could take smaller loads of sod out where as a tree you can't. Neuzil said the Board would have to specifically say that tree farms are exempt. Harney said if they have that option he would like it that they would need a permit. Parker said regardless of what they do they are required to have a permit if they are over the embargo weight limit. Stutsman said isn't part of what they do is offer alternative routes. Parker responded they do look at alternative routs for those individuals. Their thought process was that he is zoned as ag but going to a residential property they were trying to differentiate that. Hackathorn said there is also a possibility they might not get a permit. Parker said it wasn't worth it for someone to have a tree installed in their backyard and tear up several thousand dollars worth of road. Neuzil asked if they work with them on the timing and things of that nature when they apply for the permit.
Parker said one of the things they do is say that if they think the roads are going to be back in shape ask them to wait a couple weeks. Their goal is to minimize damage because that increases cost. Stutsman said the other argument with the garbage truck which is a weekly or biweekly thing where this would be a one time trip. Parker said it can be but one heavy truck can do a lot of damage to the road. Harney said he had trees he wanted to plant in his subdivision last year. R. Sullivan asked how the Board wanted to move forward. Neuzil said they would have Parker communicate with Chappell and say there is some Board interest in allowing tree farms to be exempt from road embargos to see what the process is. Harney said to decide if it is ag exempt or not. R. Sullivan said it is for Parker to ask Chappell.
R. Sullivan said he has been working with M. Sullivan with evaluations. There seems to be some difficulty of whether or not people were notified to turn in numbers. What they came up with was for M. Sullivan to send messages using the Microsoft Outlook Calendar on the fourth Monday of every month. They will get a pop up and say send numbers for whoever is up that month. If someone is out of the office for a week it could be a problem. Harney said the problem he has with those is after you have acknowledged that you have received the message if you don't do the numbers right away it goes into the deleted files. R. Sullivan said it will be up to the Board member to make the note. That way it is programmed and not up to M. Sullivan to do.
R. Sullivan said the evaluations they did last Wednesday had many typos. Harney said it is partially their fault. He and Meyers sent theirs to M. Sullivan and they are usually combined but they ended up with repetitive issues. Neuzil said they are talking about the actual evaluations that they have already gone through. R. Sullivan said the ones that have been presented. Parker’s and Human Resources Administrator Lora Shramek’s still had typos in the ones that they were given formally. Harney said a lot of it is the computers. Stutsman said it is editing and proof reading. R. Sullivan said what they came up with is after they have done pre-evaluations and M. Sullivan has done everything he needs to do per the Board's instructions he will send a copy to the liaisons to proofread. If M. Sullivan doesn't hear back from the liaisons then he will assume what he has is correct.
R. Sullivan said M. Sullivan said there are more agendas than needed for meetings. He said he is okay with only making about ten agendas and if they need more then they will make copies. R. Sullivan continued that there is a struggle with the East Iowa Tourism Association and the Local Food Group that people aren't getting paid when the Board decides to spend money. The problem is between M. Sullivan, Budget Coordinator Rich Claiborne, and the Auditor's Office and almost every time there is a mistake. Harney said the last time it was in the Auditor's Office for months and the Board sent it down numerous times. Neuzil said the breakdown is that there isn't a specific department that oversees this. Stutsman said they send out claims. Neuzil asked who send the claims out and believes that this would be treated similar to ICAD. Harney said it isn't the fact that it never went down but the fact that it never got paid downstairs. Stutsman said she didn't believe that because they're selective with claims. Harney said there is one that was laid on a specific person's desk several times that was never paid. R. Sullivan said if that is happening then they need to let County Auditor Tom Slockett know about it. Stutsman said she has never heard about a claim not getting paid. Neuzil said any line item that has a claim but not a department head over it would be the Budget Coordinator. R. Sullivan said they can't continue to do this. He suggested putting this on the next Key Issues in terms getting the people in to see what needs to be done. The Board agreed. Harney said to make sure M. Sullivan and the Auditor's Office are there.
Neuzil said as they are getting ready for the committees for next year he wanted to see if they are going to change up the committees. He wants to go through the list to see which ones are mandated or contractual that there has to be a Supervisor on. If there is a situation where nobody wants to be on that committee do they have to have a Supervisor. Stutsman said when she first came on the Board the Supervisors were not visible in the community. It is a great PR thing for the Board by their presence to show interest in what is going on. She doesn't want to go back to not going to meetings that weren't assigned. She repeatedly heard from people at meeting that it is so good to have a Board member there. They may know that the Board is interested but it is a real service that the Board is engaged. Neuzil said that if a Supervisor wants to be on 10 or 15 committees then let them but he is trying to be on fewer committees. Harney said he thinks there are some that can be cut. R. Sullivan said he doesn't have a problem figuring out what the mandated ones are. R. Sullivan said it sounds like it will be M. Sullivan and Secretary II Jo Hogarty figuring this out. Neuzil said it sounds like something Hogarty can call and find out. There are ones like ICAD and the Chamber of Commerce that want a Board member. Stutsman said there is a form that has requirements for members so it might not be hard.
Harney Left 11:34
Stutsman said an example is they got off the Mental Health Center a few years ago. There have been a lot of issues there and maybe had there been Board involvement it could have helped. Neuzil said in a situation where no member wants to travel to HACAP and they don’t contractually have to have a Supervisor can they have a citizen represent them. R. Sullivan said HACAP is one he has been on and he has had a hard time getting there because they run into a lot of night meetings. Neuzil said he is on the North Liberty Chamber, Iowa City Chamber, Iowa City Chamber Board and technically the Iowa City Chamber Board is required. He feels like if he is the Board's representative then he should show up. Stutsman said they did this so that they weren't going to the same meetings. Maybe they can have it as a volunteer basis. Neuzil said he doesn’t mind being appointed. If there is a situation where someone is on a committee and they don't want to do it again and everyone says that then maybe they would look at the volunteering thing. R. Sullivan said there are things that everyone wants to do and they should probably be divided fairly. Neuzil said he wants to be on JCCOG at some point as a Supervisor and he knows Meyers has been lobbying for two years. There are certain ones like the Chamber Board where there is already a system. R. Sullivan said with Emergency Management the assumption is that Harney has a lot of experience that he is a good representative which is true. Is there is problem then that no one else gets it. Stutsman and Neuzil both said they haven't been on a public safety committee. R. Sullivan said they will have that discussion on the January 2, 2009. Neuzil said it would be nice to know where a Supervisor is required. R. Sullivan said he could put it on for M. Sullivan and Hogarty to give more clarity.
Neuzil said it is difficult to have meetings without M. Sullivan present. There are certain ones like road issues where he doesn't need to be at. When it comes to these kinds of things they need their Executive Assistant present on Wednesdays and Thursdays just like they need Supervisors. He believes they had a discussion about not having people leave during the budget process. Stutsman suggested that they say these meetings will go until 11:30 a.m. R. Sullivan said if that is the case then as the Chair he could have taken something off if there was a strict 11:30 a.m. cut off. Stutsman said they could make it the policy that they need to inform the chair when they have to leave early. Neuzil said he is ok with on Wednesday meetings that they should be out by 11:30 a.m. The other thing they could do is start them at 8:30 a.m. Neuzil said there will be some exceptions with evaluations when they have three or four. R. Sullivan said if you walk out on a meeting then you lose your voice for that meeting. Neuzil said it get into the discussion of part-time versus full-time stuff and are still paid three quarters of what the Recorder gets. If you miss something then your voice isn’t necessarily going to be heard. R. Sullivan said this can be brought back up if 11:30 a.m. starts to be a problem then maybe they need to start at 8:30 a.m.
Neuzil said he has no problem with going until 11:30 a.m. R. Sullivan said that can be the time frame and work the agenda around that. Neuzil said they did that with the budget meetings if they went until noon then that's when they'll stop. R. Sullivan said the chair can control the agenda. Stutsman agreed and the chair can control how the meeting moves along because they often repeat themselves. Neuzil said as for as agenda items there will have a Finance Committee Meeting tomorrow. When they have the Strategic Planning Meeting next week it will be refocused on budget and jail. That will be strategic planning for awhile and the other issues have gone on their own. R. Sullivan said it wouldn't be bad to do a review. Stutsman said this is the strategic planning process. Neuzil said the system is not working and when talking with Meyers they are both not sure what's going on. Stutsman said they have all done strategic planning and doesn't understand why they can't successfully implement it. Neuzil said the things they identify get done but the Board doesn't have a lot of interaction. R. Sullivan said they are helpful and if they should look at them the day before the Key Issues. Stutsman said part of the problem is that it is easy to say let's not do it because there are other things going on. If they consistently worked it and kept revising it would work.
Neuzil said they have gotten to the situation where looking at the list the budget is going to get a lot of the focus. Iowa City has somebody that goes line by line and he thinks they need to do the same thing. Stutsman agreed and thinks it is going to be a different budgeting process. R. Sullivan said this year is important because next year is going to be the same thing. Neuzil said people are keeping their budgets at 2009 levels and in two years they are going to keep it at 2009 levels. R. Sullivan said they won't know what will happen federally between now and then. Neuzil said the Johnson County tax base is stagnant and they are already saying operational freezes for 2009. He suggests dividing all the things apart into the Finance Committee that has a growing list. To him these are more important than working on the Green Issues. Stutsman asked if they should be delegating that to Busard.
Adjourned at 11:47 a.m.
By Meaghan Mercer, Recording Secretary