Stutsman: Next up is Item E, discussion/action needed regarding Sycamore Mall. Tom Kriz is here with us this morning. Tom is Johnson County Treasurer. Tom put together a subcommittee of different people within County Government to look into the Sycamore Mall. I’m going to turn it over to you, Tom, and kind of update the entire Board as to what went on during that committee meeting and things.
County Treasurer Tom Kriz: I’d be happy to. Thank you for the time. Basically, what we did is I tried to put together just a small subcommittee of various people from throughout the County that a move or a change might impact and see what their ideas were on a concept of something as large of an area as Sycamore Mall. I can kind of let you know, people that attended that meeting were Graham Dameron, Lora Shramek, Kim Painter, Jean Schultz, Mike Foster, Pat White, Tom Slockett, Mike Scheer, Carol Thompson, of course, from the Board, Jonathan Jordahl, along with Bob Welsh. I thought it might be easy to start here, to just kind of share with you some of the comments from some of those people, because they all come from different areas and different ideas and different thoughts about that. Mike Foster of course looked at something such as the Sycamore Mall had endless potential for the senior citizens. The parking, which is always a problem where he is, the space he has now, and even employee recruitment was really tough, he found, to employ 5 people to come downtown to work. He just thought all those aspects of being in a different area where real advantages that he could see to something like that. There are also concerns expressed from various people. Tom Slockett was concerned that as we look at the possibility of things like this, we also have some major plates full in Johnson County right now with the possibility of a library bond issue, a jail bond issue. The County has already purchased some land for future development for a MH and Health Building. Really, Tom felt that we needed to set priorities and stay on a track where we’ve kind of gone before, with some of the focus that we had on how we would expand and how we would build. There were a number of comments made by people, Graham Dameron, for instance, that the County should not be a developer. He did see that you could have the private offices that his facility would need. He questioned how the plumbing would work and things like that. County Attorney White was there and a few comments he made that he had some real reservations that perhaps that area should stay as a commercial property with retailing and things, to vitalize that side of town. He thought that the Board already had a fairly good plan and they should stick to that and not move into anything right away. Also felt that the County should not be a landlord, but to stay with the plan, the general plan that the County had looked at, and how they wanted to expand. Mike Scheer looked at it from an interesting standpoint because he looks at maintenance, and that’s something that gets forgotten often. Although a building that size can be a nightmare, an upkeep nightmare. He still mentioned it was possible to do things with, but he would need, of course, more help, and it would take a lot more than what he currently manages now, and that’s very easy to see from the size and everything that was there. Information services. Jean Schultz was here. I mentioned that any time you have a remote building away from where they are located it presents a problem, but nothing that they already haven’t run into with the Courthouse and Juvenile Services and things like that. Nothing that’s insurmountable, but you always have new and unique things. As you know, with our SEATS Department, we need to continue to look for space there as in the Fall of 2001. We’re in a position where we will not have that facility we’re at now. Lisa Dewey in SEATS is in the process right now of looking for space, I know, having walked through with her, there was some potential there to how that could be used and house some of the things we need. That’s an issue that will come up that will have to be addressed fairly quickly. Mike Sullivan, even though he couldn’t be there, really liked the idea. Mostly I think what Mike liked is first of all it gave him a remote spot for Ambulance to look at, whether it was this spot or not. But just that he saw I think what a lot of us saw, that it gave the County the potential to really take care of Space Needs and future growth needs with the size of the property that was there. Not just for the Ambulance but for all the County needs. Those were some of the input that we got from those people, and that’s a very diversified bunch of people who attended that meeting and shared that. We appreciate that. We bring that to you as a Board to kind of let you know from a very diverse group, where people were. One thing we also wanted to talk about is there was some confusion as to really what was being looked at, at the Sycamore Mall, whether it was just the Sears area, which is about 80,000 square feet, or it was the whole mall. Maybe within the County there was some confusion about that. I had looked at that from the beginning as a piece of property that was 21.7 acres, which represents 945,000 square feet of area. Even though we would have some use for some of that building right away, it still would leave space there for many years to come for the County’s expansion. I think that was important to look at. As we calculated for you, a lot of people read that the opening bid for anybody to participate in this project was 3 million dollars. That’s a great figure to look at, however an opening bid for anybody’s that’s been in an auction or anything, is put there for a purpose, to get things started. It’s very unlikely that a property that that’s big would sell for that. For instance, at 3 million dollars, a property that size that related to $3.75 a square foot. That’s land cost itself. Much land that’s being developed now just bare land and gravel runs about $3.00 per square foot, so you can kind of see in proportion where that is. There was some concern whether the County was just interested in one phase of that, or the entire property. That was divided amongst us, but I think everybody looked at the County will continue to have space needs, will continue to have major needs for land, and 21.7 acres, if you look at that facility would provide quite a bit of that. It’s also from the Treasurer’s Department standpoint, and from my standpoint there, when you start looking at that, then you have the problem of how you fund it, what you would do with it. You need to keep in mind that we also have the jail issue, which needs to be a separate issue, because that is a major issue, but really separate from all the other County space needs. That’s a major issue out there. Auditor Slockett is right. It appears that there will be some major funding looked for the library, but the County will still continue to look at our long range plan for Space Needs. Right now, as you look at our Capital Projects Plan for the County, in 2001-2002, we projected at looking at $4,500,000 for a Health DHS building. That’s quite a sizable amount there that’s not that far off. We had projected looking in the range of $400,000 in Juvenile Court Services building, $400,000 for the Senior Dining Expansion. We didn’t have a figure yet on the possibility of SEATS and things like that. We budgeted in, tried to budget in for the future some money for land acquisition. All those add into the picture of what’s right or what’s wrong. If the County looks at this thing, I guess probably what we came up with is from a size-wise it would be ideal. The pluses are it would give the County enough land and enough space to really look down where Johnson County may be in the year 2050 or on, with all the space that’s there. It would give you the County Campus idea. It would link things together very well, but there’s always a price to pay for that kind of thing. In that price to pay comes, first of all, how you fund it, how you would do it, whether, for a short time, the County would actually be a landlord or get into the business of development and having, because we didn’t use all the space right away, renting some of that out. Coming out of the private sector, I would have a problem with that. I would hate to see the County ever in direct competition with developers or people who do that for a living, along that line, although that may be the only way to do that. It would be possible to finance a project like that from the County’s cash flow. It could make it tight. I think the thing to remember in light of that is that as we look at a jail bond issue, often how we’re rated and how we will be bonded, whether it’s a triple A rating, depends on the cash reserves the County has. That’s another phase of that to look at, is your bond rating is representative of the type of interest rate, that you go out and place these bonds, and your cash reserves enter into that greatly as you’re rated there. You have to look at that, and however you spend, whether it’s this project or anything. That’s definitely a concern there. The other thing was that we already have purchased the plot of land with some idea of Space Needs for the future. We have over a million dollars involved in that. That’s, in a brief synopsis, what’s kind of come together. The biggest drawback I see to the County in coming into this a year ago as Treasurer from the private sector, is it’s much harder for County or State or Government to move quickly than it is for the private citizen to do that, and make a decision and come up with funding to do some of those things. It’s a much more time-consuming thing. There’s no question it provides the possibility of a lot of value there. The unforeseen there is what the property will actually sell for. In a bidding process, it’s hard to know. It is unlikely that it would sell for 3 million dollars. Estimates of what it might sell for at bid seem to range, when talking to people, from 4 1/2 to 5 million dollars. Once again, those are estimates, and those are guesses to the best of people’s knowledge. There’s no question, at 3 million dollars and $3.17 a square foot, it would be an excellent purchase for anyone. I think it’s unlikely that would happen. With that information, you have to decide. We do have a plan in place. We do have Space Needs. Those are the things we’ll struggle with from years to come. This type of land does provide an excellent snapshot of what could be done with a parcel that big. 21.7 acres is a lot of land in one particular spot. I would remind some of the people that have been here, and I only know from talking to my father as a lifelong resident here… But there was a time when the fathers of Iowa City they thought were really crazy to go clear east of town and buy land to build a place to put City High School on at the time. In fact, that was a huge controversy, as I remember, and most of the people involved with the City, they would just have soon left, because that was such a lame idea, to go way, way out. Well, you can see where City High School falls in that perspective, as does West High School, and it has expanded out there. I think the County will continue to grow. Much like a field of dreams, if you have a space that big, the people will come. I would imagine the County would fill it, and maybe in fast order than that. But it would be a very hard thing to put together very quickly, with those kind of dollars, and with taxation at the levels it is now. Those are big things you really have to look at, what’s there? Will there be an opportunity like that again? Probably so. Will it be in that price range, will it be that size, will it be a proximity where we need to be? I don’t think anybody knows that question. But it’s important that the County looks at things like that and never puts blinders on to say that we couldn’t change or we couldn’t divert from where we think we want to be. Because I think the bottom line is we’re always going to have space needs, and we’re always going to be looking for space. How we coordinate about how we do that comes up to each Board that has to deal with that year after year. This was the tight fix that could fix that for a long time and give, give the County the (inaudible) they need. I’d open it up to any questions. I say, I try to keep that brief, but that’s the synopsis of a lot of feelings from a lot of department heads, a lot of various people in the County. It all comes back to dollars.
Stutsman: Thank you, Tom. Good overview and thanks for taking the lead on putting that subcommittee together and, and things. That was a big help.
Duffy: Appreciate this report, Tom. I’ve been doing a lot of talking this morning. Usually I’m a better listener. But, I think Johnson County Board of Supervisors should meet with the Iowa City City Council to start with. Because you’re going to see a lot of land on the tax rolls. If it ever gets straightened out and it’s cooperation between the City and the County. I’d talked to one of them when this first came up and I think that’s just the polite thing to do anyway.
Kriz: And that was discussed. What about the possibility of a City/County type thing. We also discussed the possibility, and I’ve contacted some of the people that were interested, some of the people that would be co bidders if the County were to be involved. Most of them have a great interest, of course, in leasing land to the County. I had not found any that wanted to be a partner, per se, with the County.
Duffy: I don’t mean a partner.
Kriz: Yes.
Duffy: I mean, that’s off the tax roll and if we buy it then that’s it.
Kriz: That’s it. That’s exactly right. And you look at where that income changes and things like that. That’s right. But, there are potentials for that property even if we are not involved as a purchaser for our space needs. I think that’s the other thing to look at. It may not be ideal. It may be just leased for a period of time. But, there, I think there will be space available to the County if the County sees need to do that.
Lehman: I was going to say, also the public needs to be aware we’re renting spaces now that some of these departments could be relocated from. So, it’s not exactly an additional amount that we’d have to come up with. Some of it may be just we’d be renting there instead of some place else. Any discussion on lease with options to buy with any of these developers? I don’t know if you can comment on that?
Kriz: It’s an interesting phase of this process right now because it’s kind of to me like a poker game. Everybody’s cards are pretty close to the vest and nobody really wants to tip what they’re thinking or what they’re thinking of. I can’t help but believe that a lot of them have an interest in talking to the County if they acquire this land. But, yes, not much. It’s been really hard to ascertain any of that information of figuring that out. I think that there’ll be possibilities there. It comes down to how we use it. You’re right, Mike. We lease space, we have places. Just like the space we lease for SEATS right now. That’s a space that we have leased, but that lease will come to an end next fall and, and those are the type of things that we...
Jordahl: You talked about $4.5 million for the DHS/Health Building that has been discussed regarding putting on the Mall Drive property. And they got to hold those $4.5 million in the framework of this $3 million base bid that you’re talking about for Sycamore, too. The building’s already there. I granted there’d need to be some remodeling, and then you look at the parking. You build that DHS/Health Building and then there’s, where’s you’re expansion for parking. I mean, good grief. If there is much as people have trouble with parking and would like to have a place where you could park, this would certainly have that. And the $4.5 million bucks, if we did this, we would have to spend some of that on remodeling. But, we wouldn’t have to… We could also negotiate, that is to say sale, the Mall Drive property.
Kriz: Yes. And those are all things that need to be looked at or can be looked at. We projected the possibility of around $2 million on the expansion and changing of this facility for the space needs here. So, as you look at the plate for the next 5 years, there’s a good $7.2 to $7.5 million right there in things. If you wanted timing, probably, I start to think now there will never be perfect timing for County government to spend that kind of money on space needs. Truly, it’s finding the best way to get there. To find the County residents and the taxpayers the best thing for their tax dollars. That’s a terrific to you as Supervisors. But, there is potential. We also have the armory. And we’ve talked about that for years and that came up. Acquiring the armory next door; that seems to get talked about a lot but we never can seem to push that along. There is a lot of space right next to this building that has possibility. And I know other Boards have looked at that, but once again, it’s in that long range thing and we don’t know where that’s going to be. But, that would certainly answer the question.
Stutsman: Well, I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that County government just can’t respond to these situations as quickly as the private sector. Just because sealed bids need to be in by what, the 24th or 25th?
Kriz: Sealed bids need to be in a week from today. As a player, it’s very hard for government to move that fast on that thing because we’re restricted and well should be that way. But, where private investors and stuff are always looking for land property and have that phase of it done ahead of time and in some ways some have open checkbooks to do that. But, it is hard. But, these are the things I think this Board and future Boards and things need to continue to look at, is that we are always going to have that need and we need to somehow prepare for that or try to be proactive. So, if not this, if something else comes up, that we can try to respond in a timely manner. Most of you remember we inquired about this over the past couple years and there was just no answer, no response to it and all of a sudden it happens and becomes available. Yes, you’re right, it’s very hard to do that.
Stutsman: Well, and, when we were just, when you were just kind of outlying and numbered those options, and I’ve worked on the Space Committee for a couple years, and I’m no longer the Board’s representation on that committee, but, there are just so many facets to that. I just wonder if we aren’t to the point where we almost need to look at hiring or having a project manager to start narrowing down some of these options and spending just their time doing nothing but working on these space needs for the community. I guess I’m thinking the armory, which seems like such a logical place for us to expand to and I know the armory is interested. We’re interested. But, who has the undivided time to put to continue to keep that process going along. And that’s why I come from saying, maybe the County is to the point where we need to seriously think about, we need a project manager that just devotes time to looking at these options, presenting these options to the Board, so that we can respond to something and keep something moving along. I the armory is a huge project to put into place, because not only are you dealing with local, you’re dealing with state government and you’re dealing with federal government and that takes a lot of time to, to get all those things into place. And I just throw out to you. And then the Sycamore Mall thing, too. If we had some, one person, that could really present all that, put a package together, we could respond to something like that and I think there is going to be more of these opportunities that come up, but we are all scrambling to try to fit into busy schedules. Pat’s busy schedule, your busy schedule, the Board’s busy schedule, and these are big dollars and they require very, very thoughtful consideration.
Kriz: And I think you’re right. The bottom line is to do everything we need to do as efficiently as we can for the taxpayers of Johnson County and that’s what we look to do. We need to have some foresight for the future.
Jordahl: You’ve talked about buying space and taking care of those future needs and the decision seems to boil down to one of where, which basket are we going to put our eggs in. Do we want to put our foot down on the eastside of town over there in a big way? We already have rented space or leased space in Eastdale Mall and then ground on Mall Drive. Or do we want to develop this area further with the armory? Or do we want to take advantage of the fact that we own land out on Melrose across by Chatham Oaks and across from Secondary Roads, where already the Jail Study Committee has recommended that we put the new Jail facility? There’s room out there where we could put additional county facilities. I’m thinking in particular, the SEATS barn might be an appropriate thing to, to put out there for the bus storage as well as offices. It’s kind of this geographical where do we go decision. Do we want one big thing for all of our services out on the eastside? Do we want 3 separate spots? We already have what, 7? Or do we want to put our foot down in a bigger way out on West Melrose? I kind of see things, given some of the problems with constricted space here, making sense, like you said, with City High, to look west.
Duffy: Well, Jonathan, I’m not so sure this Campus is a good concept. Really, I’m not really for that because this building, it’s not an old building in my mind. Only 20 years old and to say all of us move out there.
Jordahl: Well, not everybody. I’m just saying, for what, whatever we build to go out there. We could stay here for these services.
Duffy: But, the National Guard, the last time I talked to a member over there, it’s still on the fire that maybe there wouldn’t be any trade. Is that the input? Wouldn’t be any trade for some of our county farm, but they might be interested in just selling the thing. And they don’t pay any property tax. I think it would be a plus for the people, especially in Iowa City.
Jordahl: Yes. I definitely agree with you on that one that if we can make the armory happen, we should.
Duffy: I think we ought to pursue, but we have to be a little careful. We could lose them both, but we haven’t talked about what it would really cost to rejuvenate, so to speak, the mall. And I heard it was something, if we did it, like it should be done somewhere between $50-$80 a square foot. That really woke me up. Did you have any figures on that?
Kriz: Yes. There, there were various figures. And Charlie, those came in from $25 up to about $80. That’s what I read in the paper. So, it’s hard to say. Certain space requires more, based on the specs you want. For storage you want to park vehicles in, it’s not going to cost nearly as much as it is to have offices with their own separate air units and everything like that. So, it, it varies based on the particular need. It really does, and so to say it’s going to be $60 or $85 a square foot; pretty hard figure to come up with. An architect has looked at it, talked to Harvey Henry, who was one of the original ones, and didn’t really feel that that type space needs would be that costly, is what we read. But, as anybody knows, once you start into an old building, you don’t really know what you get into along that line. But, but remodeling costs is based on up, up to what you need. It costs, of course, much less to do it to park vehicles in or store things in.
Jordahl: If we were wanting to do this Sycamore, I mean, it’s kind of like really what we’re talking about this morning is, is this a realistic thing for us to propose. I talked to Dwight Doberstein, our gentleman architect that’s been working with the County on particularly on the Jail project, but on the whole space needs question, about staging something like this. Because certain departments, I know Carol’s very concerned that DHS, for example, needs to have private offices so that people can speak with their clients in privacy, might need to have a more expensive upgrade. Hard walls and some air conditioning ducting and so forth that would, that would be necessary to serve those private offices right off the bat, where, if we were to relocate DHS or MH/DD to that place. But, in the saving money line, much as I don’t like the cubicles that we work out of here, because you overhear things on telephones and you’re distracted all the time, it does work in the short term. We can get in there and we wouldn’t have to spend all this $80 a square foot up front. We could stage the remodeling process over a period of years as we could afford to do it. If we wanted to look at the Mall, it would be possible to do something like that.
Duffy: Well, we got so many items on our plate, and, and this new jail really puts a crimp in our plans. And that’s, maybe I’m a little conservative with the taxpayers money, like I’ve been talking about for a full year, but you just can’t do everything all of a sudden. I’ll tell you, if we’d have to, one thing out there, you ever figure up what it costs to pave that parking lot out at the mall right there? If that’s included in the Mall, then that mall doesn’t look as expensive as, as (inaudible).
Kriz: Well, yes. All, all of the parking lot of course, that’s your 21.7 acres from, from where at.
Duffy: That’s a lot. But, that really costs.
Kriz: There’s a lot. Well, you bet you there is.
Duffy: One thing again, how about Randall’s store?
Kriz: That building is all part of it.
Duffy: Is it?
Kriz: Like the McDonald’s Restaurant is a building on the leased land, it’s all the facility. It’s from where the Walgreen’s was over to where the Sears ends, the Randall’s, where J. Hall Keyboards is, Dairy Queen is in there, and then the McDonald’s is a building on leased land. So, the land under that belonged to.
Duffy: Well, the old Randall store isn’t too bad a building itself.
Kriz: So, there is, there is space.
Jordahl: But, you get down to the question of can we compete for this, should we compete for this. What are we going to bid at? I mean, we might want to discuss that in an open forum here. That’s kind of the thing that we’re going to have it be a bid. But, for the sealed process, we’re going to have to have an executive session about that. But, just in general, on what basis do we think that we can compete with private parties that are interested in this, that have the money to lay on the table. I just think if it’s a good deal, somebody else probably going to buy it at a price we can’t match.
Duffy: I’d probably agree with that, but I still think we should meet with the City Council and see what they think.
Thompson: Well, I’d be opposed to our bidding on it for all the reasons that have been mentioned here, plus a few others. But, certainly, if someone who buys it comes forward with a plan to provide a space in that location, I think we should seriously consider it.
Stutsman: I’d be willing to consider it, just like any option that we look at that, that is brought forward. I guess I would agree, too, I don’t think we’re in a position to, to make a bid on this by next week. There’s positives, but then there’s some other things, too that need to be taken into consideration. One thing I wanted to mention, we get lots of calls, and I did get a call from a Lyle Weeber, who lives close to the Mall. He said I could use his name and address his comments. He strongly supports that staying as a commercial piece of property. He’s looking at the point of view of his property values and also thinking that commercial needs to be in that part of the city. So, I just throw that out, too. We are hearing from constituents and their feelings about the proposal.
Kriz: Well, that’s what makes the County government work the way it does is that it’s that how you try to learn to do those things.
Stutsman: Bob? Oh. I’m sorry, Tom.
Jordahl: Bob?
Stutsman: Bob, did you have some…
Welsh: If, if I could. It seems to me that you can always play the game, in the future this might develop. I think, what you all have to do, is to decide, are you going to make some investments in space needs for this County, now, or I think we all agree the Jail has number one priority. If you all said to me, we’re going to concentrate on the Jail, we’re not going to address any of the other space needs for 5-7 years, and everyone would get to live with the space that they have, I could buy that. If you say, in addition to the Jail, we’ve got these kinds of space needs that we need to address now, then I say to you, as a taxpayer, get the most bang for your bucks that you can. When you look at what your, are your space needs projections of dollars to be spent, for example, you have an estimate for a building to house 2 of your departments, the estimate is now $4,500,000. You’ve been told that the land, there’s a lot of problems with that, (inaudible) that you can build there. But, there’ll be more cost if you go up 2 stories and have a basement. So, are you going to spend that money or not? Now, if you tell me you’re not going to spend that money because of the Jail, then that’s great. Then, say to the departments, hey, we can’t do it now and hope something will come up. If, at least from what I hear, I think you all have some real space needs right now. I think that SEATS needs something now, not 10 years from now. I think the Health Department, the Department of Human Services, needs something now, not 10 years from now. What Tom said about your costs are true. One developer told me that to put in the walls, drywall, ceilings, light fixtures, things like that, private space, will cost you around $30 a square foot. Now that person also said, you have to realize, when you deal with 70,000 square feet, the cost is a heck of a lot cheaper than if you do a project like 500 square feet or a 1000 square feet. I guess Tom said will there be other opportunities like this (inaudible). I don’t know of any other closed mall areas in this area. There might be. I just don’t happen to know of it.
Jordahl: That one downtown.
Welsh: That’s right. The little downtown one. If you all want to pursue that as an option, I think that would cost you a heck of a lot more than what you’re talking about at this point. I guess, probably thinking, I’m not going to be around in 50 years from now, well, I don’t think so, but you really have an opportunity to solve the space needs for Johnson County government for now in the long, long term future. Because, I had dinner with Mr. Henry. We got to discussing that and it turned out he was the architect from Iowa City that supervised that (inaudible). He said, that a (inaudible). (Inaudible) concerned about whether or not there was asbestos in the floor. He said he was pretty sure that there was not asbestos in the floor. Yes. I just think, can you solve the space needs problems of this County? Not for just now, but for as far into the future as you can think. I think the answer is yes, you can. I guess all I’m saying is, don’t tell me you’re not interested in this and then turn around and say, but we’re going to spend $2 million upgrading this building. We’re going to spend $5 million or $4.5 million on satisfying these 2 departments and you’re going to spend I don’t know how much on SEATS, and you’re going to have to spend how much here. Because then I have to say, as a taxpayer, you’re not using my dollars wisely. You’re looking short term and not long term. There are very few Boards of Supervisors that I know of, and I’ve been around them now for a total of 30 years, that have had the opportunity to address, yes, (inaudible) what I’m going to say. You’re the first Board of Supervisors that have looked constructively long term and what space needs are of this County. And you all are to be congratulated for that. All I’m saying is I think now you have an opportunity to solve the space needs problems of this County for as long as any of you will live, and as long as anybody probably listening to this tape will live. And is that worth doing? And a guy like myself, as a taxpayer, and anybody that knows me knows that I’m a conservative person when it comes to dollars and cents, to me that’s a win-win situation.
Duffy: Well, Bob, I’m going to agree with you on some things. And I’m not so sure you won’t be around here in 50 years from now.
Welsh: Hey, if I’ve lived this long.
Duffy: The whole thing again resolves around the issue of where the tax dollars are going to come from. Our ending balance now is, if I looked up at the Auditor’s Office here last week, is projected about 10% and you don’t want to go any lower on that.
Welsh: Charlie, as I say, if you want to say hey, we’re not going to do any space needs except the Jail for 7-10 years, then great. I could live with that.
Duffy: I’m not saying that, but I would pursue we’re across the alley here.
Welsh: But, but look at the space you’ve got across the alley.
Duffy: Yes.
Welsh: I don’t know how many… How many acres is that Charlie? Look at the condition…
Duffy: I didn’t ask them that. It’s been awhile.
Welsh: But, look at the condition of that armory and the condition of the mall and I’ll tell you, and I’m not an architect, but I can tell you from my perspective, I would much rather redesign putting offices in the Mall, than I would in the armory.
Duffy: How old a building is the Mall?
Welsh: It’d be a heck of a lot…
Thompson: 30.
Stutsman: Somebody said 30 years.
Kriz: Right at 30 years.
Stutsman: We need to wind this discussion up.
Kriz: I think the big thing is, even if you would decide, bid on it, doesn’t mean the County would acquire it. Bottom line.
Lehman: I think realistically, there’s no way we can put a bid together in a week. I would look at…
Kriz: If you would decide to do that it would take all the time that Janet probably had, that Pat White had and our Treasurer’s Office has to try to do something. I think that’s the…
Lehman: I’d be very open to partnering with somebody on a lease basis or a lease with an option. I don’t what kind of situations, we may have to move fast there where other people would want commitments after they purchase them. I’m sure you’ve had a few discussions. We’ve got that ground on Mall Drive that maybe where we could exchange that for some property at Sears, if a developer was interested. There’s a lot of options to go here. I think the people have to realize there is a cost. In all this Mall Drive, we're projected to spend over $400,000 of interest before that’s purchased. But, Tom knows as a banker, that’s the cost of doing business, is your cost to own. You see a dollar figure of $3 million. We all know $3 million is not going to buy that mall, it’s not going to get it up and running for any type of tendency. I just don’t see where we’re going to be able to be a player in a week. We’re going to have to look at our options beyond that.
Stutsman: I would agree with that, too Mike. I don’t know. Final comments from the rest of the Board?
Duffy: Anybody still wants to meet with the City Council? Don’t you think we should or get their input?
Stutsman: Well, we’ll be having another joint meeting.
Thompson: Yes. We could put it on our agenda for our next joint meeting. That’s a good idea.
Stutsman: That is a good idea.
Duffy: When is the joint meeting?
Peters: April 26th.
Stutsman: OK.
Thompson: It won’t go any faster than that.
Duffy: You don’t think it will?
Jordahl: I talked to Steve Atkins when we had that conference board meeting and he said he didn’t want any more. He wondered if we wanted, oh, never mind.
Stutsman: Final comments. Jonathan?
Jordahl: Yes, well, the, I think the big picture on this is the Jail versus the Mall. Even though it’s going to take probably a bond issue to deal with the Jail, as Tom has pointed out to us, it still influences our ability to deal with the Jail question. To extend or even over extend ourselves in purchasing this mall, well it’s still going to need to be remodeled. I think we can address the short term needs of the SEATS Department in a relatively efficient way, whether that’s renting leasing space or constructing a facility out at the Melrose property.
Stutsman: Carol, any final comments?
Thompson: No.
Lehman: Can I just add that…
Stutsman: Oh. Sure.
Lehman: We’ve heard, I’ve heard from people, along with as well as you, that people want that as commercial. Well, it may have to be a combination to make that commercial even be viable out there. So, people be aware of that too, that it may have to be some type of partnership between government and commercial.
Stutsman: When too, if people say they want the commercial, then they’ll have to support that commercial business if that’s what it comes too.
Lehman: Right. And I’m not a developer, and I… But, they have to realize that their thinking that sorting that out too, is there enough support for that to be all commercial? Would it be better to be partial commercial and partial something else?
Stutsman: Right. Once again Tom, thank you.
Duffy: What are we talking about again? Pardon me Sally. Our County…
Lehman: About the Sears, the Sycamore Mall.
Stutsman: Yes. Talking about…
Duffy: Yes. Well, I’ve already heard a few complaints about using our County farm for a new jail from some of the folks that live fairly close by there.
Stutsman: That’s for another discussion at another time. Mainly this afternoon.
Duffy: Well…
Kriz: I’ll try to stay involved as long as the Board wants.
Stutsman: Great.
Lehman: Thank you.
Kriz: …through the Treasurer’s Office and with the time we have there. Your comments on long term, maybe we need a person that does a lot of that. May have some merit. That probably should be addressed. But, whatever you decide, at least our office will stay involved as much as we can with that.
Lehman: Thank you for your efforts.
Stutsman: OK. Thanks, Tom.
Duffy: Yes. Good deal, Tom.
Stutsman: All right.