Lehman: I was wondering if we couldn’t skip Reports and Inquiries and move those to a little bit later in the work session and get to Inquiries and Reports from the public. I know we have quite a few members of the public here who had asked to come in and they had inquiries about road embargoes that have been affecting their businesses. I asked Mike to stay around. Maybe we can help clarify a little bit of that and then we can move to some of those other items. Our staff as well as peoples’ time is pretty valuable. So, I’d like to open that up for the discussion on road embargoes. Mike, if you want to clarify and state a little bit of why we’re there, how we’re there. I could open up a little bit to say that we’re trying to protect taxpayer’s investment. This is something that as long as I can remember having a Drivers License, living out in the country that is done. I don’t think anyone is exempt. Even farmers have to come in and ask for it. They’re not always granted it or they’re suggested certain routes that they have to take as far as some services such as fuel and stuff like that. They’re still required to come out. I think what we’re interested in today is from the waste management industry and they had some questions that they’d like to have get clarified. I don’t know if you have anything you’d like to add to that before…

Gardner: You’ve covered it pretty well. It’s just a matter of we’re able to embargo these roads up to 90 days a year. We do it every year at this time. It protects them. They’re very susceptible at this time of year to damage from heavy loads due to the frost (inaudible) upgraded the road itself. That’s why.

Lehman: I’d like to open that up to the public if anyone would like to come forward and identify yourself for the Auditor’s and have some inquiries or suggestions or both.

Dennis Hagen: I’m Dennis Hagen with Waste Management of Iowa.

Nicholas Yutzy: I’m Nicholas Yutzy of N & N Sanitation.

Kevin Aunan: Kevin Aunan with Hawkeye Waste.

Steve Smith: Steve Smith, Johnson County Refuse.

Yutzy: I think we’ve got Tracy Vickler, someone from Reasonable Rates. We’re listening to this. We’ve been in business since 1970 in this County. Since 1970, we have drove on the County roads to pick up private residential garbage. Granted, back in 1970, there was a lot less residential pickups because at that time most of the residents burned their trash, buried it, did whatever with it, but, it wasn’t being picked up by us as commercial contractors. So, there was still very little out there. We have never been approached by anybody, the Sheriff’s Department, the DOT, about us going on the roads. We don’t go on the roads just to drive across the roads. We go out there just to pick up the residential garbage at that time. However, as of last week things have changed. We get a ticket the other for $436 by the DOT. Steve Smith got a ticket for $330 some dollars. I’ve heard one of my trucks has been stopped twice today already out there picking up his residential garbage. The argument that we’re going to destroy the roads is a mute argument. We’ve all been going on these roads to pick up our residential trash over the last 10 or 15 years, all of us have. So, we’re not going to do any more damage today than we were doing yesterday or last year. We’ve been on them. We apparently have been going on them illegally. After we received our ticket, we approached Johnson County Secondary Roads and they said, there is absolutely no way, we’re not going to let you on the roads. So, we contacted the Health Department and we said look, if we can’t go out there, we’re going to just have to quit picking up trash for 2 months and you’re going to have garbage piling up all over the roads. The Health Department said, well, wait a minute let me get a hold of Johnson County Secondary Roads. They called me back a half- hour later and said, sorry, we can’t do anything. They’re set on their ways, they’re not going to change. The problem we’ve got here is we’re trying to come to you guys and do something legally and say, hey, grant us this permit to pick up on it. We’re not asking for all of our trucks just to use it everyday. So, this is why we’re coming to you before and we’re coming to you as a group. All of the haulers are here to ask for this. When we did call the Johnson County Secondary Roads, the comment was made that, because we mentioned we’d just stop, stop picking up them up. The comment was made by Mike that, well, I’ll give everybody that calls me a number to one of the other haulers that will pick it up. It’s impossible because none of us have trucks that weigh less than 8 tons. So, it’s an impossible situation. So, I was going to say, we’re coming to you now before you because we’re talking thousands of homes out there that are affected by this embargo. Not only the 130-140 miles of oil roads, but the subdivisions that are off of these roads that we can’t get to. We’re talking major amounts of people. One of the other guys has something to say. I’m trying to bring you up to speed to where we’re at.

Lehman: Thank you Nick.

Hagen: My only question would be, if we’re not allowed to go down the streets, what do we tell our customers? Who do we tell them to call if we tell our customer that we can’t pick you up for 60 days or 90 days because of the embargo? But by the same respect we can’t stop billing you because some time we’re going to be able to come down there and sometime we’re going to have to take it all. Do they call the Supervisors, do they call the engineers, how many calls and what numbers should we direct them to.

Lehman: I definitely see your point that there is more residential out there, more demand. At the same token there is less chip seal road. I would assume that you are probably using heavier trucks than you were when you first started out. Nick said you’ve been hauling since 1970. I don’t know if you’ve gone to tandem axle versus single when you started. That’s one aspect I worry about. Are there heavier trucks running out there?

Yutzy: Most of ours are single axle. I think yours is single axle going out there. So, we’re still saying about the same on that.

Lehman: Anybody else? I realize it’s a catch 22. The health issue of it, where do we open the door and close the door? I know Mike’s had problems before with people trying to build. They’ve come into and asked for a special permit. In the past I know one time somebody had to do something with the house. He charged them a dollar amount plus they were going to pay for any damage. Well, after it was done there was no damage and they wanted their money back. Mike said most of the payment for that permit went for the administration stuff. Most people are aware of that. But, this is something you’ve never had a real problem with before. Mike said Secondary Roads only posts them. The DOT and the Sheriff’s Department are the ones that enforce them. So, what you’re asking is us to give them some direction or issue you some type of blanket permits to do your work.

Harney: What have you done in the past? Have you had smaller vehicles or do you use the larger ones?

Hagen: It hasn’t been enforced.

Yutzy: Our trucks that we’ve used have always been about the same size. We are weight wise, we’re talking maybe 1,000 or 2,000 pounds difference in weights. So, we really haven’t changed anything on that. I talked to Deputy Whale from the Sheriff’s Department because he called us up the other day. In fact, it was just right before we got our ticket on Friday and he had had a complaint about us being out there because someone had tried to move and they couldn’t get the semi in to move them. Then, they saw our truck going by to pick up the garbage so they called him up and complained about it. Well, his response to me was the same as the Health Department’s. We can’t just have trash just piling up alongside the road out there for 2 months. I think you should be able to get a permit. Just call up Johnson County Secondary Roads and get the permit. It seems like everyone is looking at it the same way, except Secondary Roads is saying, no, because you’re going to damage them. But, like I said, we’re not doing anymore damage because we’ve been on them over the last 10, 15, 20 years anyway. Every one of us haulers, as of all day today, are still going on them. Nothing has changed. We’re just asking for your blessing. I don’t know how else to say that.

Lehman: Do you have any type of take on this Mike?

Gardner: My comment to that is, you’re not doing any more damage now than you have over the past, but you’re not doing any less either. We really don’t know what damage is being done by these. I’m getting the bill every year from the contractor we talked about earlier today for chip sealing these roads to repair the damages on them. Perhaps if these loads weren’t on them that bill would be less for us. I don’t know. I know this same conversation took place last year. I wasn’t here. I was off for awhile, but the same issue came up and the discussion took place last year. The Health Department was involved, Graham Dameron was brought into it. It was his opinion at the time that this work could be done hauling smaller loads. We had a complaint earlier this year. Some of these oil roads are paid for by the Homeowners Associations. We do the work on them to repair them and then bill them for the work. They’re some of the first ones that requested their road get an embargo set up on it. They don’t want their bill to be any higher than it absolutely has to be. One of those situations called us prior to the embargoes going up this year, wanting to make sure that the garbage haulers weren’t allowed to go with their big trucks. Last year they put a big truck at the end of the oil road where the embargo ended and they shuttled in with a smaller truck so that they were able to meet the 8-ton limit. So, there are a number of things that could be done so that they don’t have to run these roads. They could set up drop points that are not on these oil roads.

Joe Steve: Can I speak?

Lehman: Yes, identify yourself.

Joe Steve: I’m Joe Steve, Operations Manager of Waste Management. Are fuel trucks, propane trucks allowed to go on these roads?

Lehman: They have to get permits.

Steve: Are they required to drive smaller trucks down to deliver the fuel?

Lehman: No.

Gardner: No, they’re not and that is right in the Code. We have to issue them permits.

Steve: My question is, if they can be allowed an exemption, it’s not like this is something moving that can wait 2 months. Trash is going to accumulate no matter what. Whether you tell us to drive down there or not to, people aren’t going to be able to stop producing trash. So, it’s a health issue as far as whether the damage is done to the road or not. As far as one of them, trash being picked up and how it can be done.

Neuzil: Does the propane, I know that’s part of the Code as far as allowing them to make these kinds of exceptions. Do they pay for those permits?

Gardner: There is no charge for the permit.

Neuzil: If the haulers had to get a permit, would they be allowed to get a permit?

Lehman: They haven’t in the past.

Gardner: No, we have not issued them.

Neuzil: If we did issue and allow permits for these, what would that cost the business?

Gardner: We don’t charge for the permits.

Neuzil: OK. Permits are just made so that you are aware.

Gardner: So if they’re stopped they have something to show the officer that they are exempt from the embargo.

Neuzil: Is there the possibility of allowing these permits so that the haulers could get there, maybe every other week? Something of that nature, would that help?

Gardner: Yes, we can do anything that you want.

Lehman: Most of your stuff you’re only going once a week now down a certain road. They’re just going weekly on a certain route, although they may…

Yutzy: We went twice a week and it can’t be that much heavier.

Hagen: You don’t want garbage sitting along the County roads for a week.

Lehman: The gentleman back there, his point was, his point was, if you picked it up irregular or half as often you’d have twice as much to carry and your weights would be higher. I don’t know what kind of weights that you have that you carry. I know a lot of this trash is more bulky than weight to it. It’s just the idea that your truck starting out is heavy.

Neuzil: As far as what you accept as far as products, could that be altered some? Would that help at all?

Yutzy: We just accept household trash is all.

Neuzil: OK. Just trying to find if there is a possibility so that you could still get rid of the trash but do so on much less basis of using the roads during certain times.

Lehman: I can see their request, because of the health issue, with fuel trucks, school buses, things like that. Everybody is going to argue an economic hardship, whether it’s somebody trying to build a house and that. But, I think there is just a little bit difference variance here.

Yutzy: I understand where you’re coming at there. We got a call yesterday that wanted a big roll off container on an embargoed road and we turned them down. I said, no I can’t bring it out there right now. They were rather upset with us and they probably called one of my competitors. Hopefully they told them the same thing. But, we’re not looking at that. We’re not looking at building a house.

Harney: I say it’s a health issue as well. It’s hard to draw a line between an individual that is giving an economic burden on them where they want to put a basement in. Or they want to get their piece of heavy equipment out to go to another job site and it’s costing them dollars for their employees not being able to work. It’s a hard wall to walk, I guess you…

Lehman: I put this a little bit more towards the farmers. They look a little more lenient because they live out there, but also they’re usually dealing with perishable commodities, whether it would be livestock or feed. I think with the health risk, this kind of falls right along that same line, too.

Hagen: Imagine if you would, yourself storing your trash on your property for 2 months or for 2 weeks. It’s not something that is desirable to anyone. Like Nick, we’ve had calls. We do not go the embargo roads for construction. It doesn’t make them happy. But, we are committed to the trash pickup for residents in these areas. We do get calls when it’s not picked up properly.

Neuzil: If we do allow this to happen I think that obviously we need to be prepared to have additional, or at least costs that we are seeing right now. As far as when Mike submits a budget, we need to understand that one of the reasons he asks for as much as he does for these repairs is because these kinds of trucks use it.

Hagen: Let’s remember that we’ve been doing this, this whole time anyway. So, the budget is not going to change. It’s been this way.

Lehman: Yes. But, I think what Terrence is saying is it follow the trickle down of if these roads are going to have to be repaired it’s going to be the people living out there, their taxes. In turn, their stuff (inaudible) a service. So, either you charge them more, pay a fine or permit, or the taxpayer is going to pay more for having that road kept up and still get the service from you.

Yutzy: One of things that you also might want to consider is the unequal treatment here between propane and the waste haulers. That is an issue that could be brought forth, too. I’m not sitting here trying to threaten. We’re trying to help you out. But, we’re just looking like you for a way to accommodate this situation. Ultimately, it falls back on the residents or it falls back on the County and their maintenance program.

Lehman: Bob Welsh do you have a comment?

Bob Welsh: It seems to me that among people, competition-wise, that it would behoove the trash industry, at least for one of them, to get a smaller vehicle that could go on those roads when their embargoed during that period of time.

Jerry Feick: That could also be said of the propane industry. You have an unconstitutional, unequal treatment of your enforcement and it’s probably grounds for a lawsuit against you. You would lose on the face of it.

Lehman: Bob are you done with your comment?

Welsh: All I’m saying is the embargo is probably something needed. I think that’s a basic decision you all have to make is, do you want an embargo or don’t you.

Lehman: I think we’re saying we have an embargo, but we’ve made exceptions and they’re asking why they don’t qualify under that same exception.

Feick: The embargo is moved to the unequal treatment. You have admitted here that you have no review of the propane industry at all.

Neuzil: That’s because it’s in the Code, Sir.

Feick: Fine. Then, that’s a decision.

Neuzil: Well, maybe it is, but we follow the laws.

Feick: (Inaudible) unequal treatment under the law is constitutional. You also have the interest of the public health threat. Let’s keep the propane industry from going out there. Let them buy smaller trucks or let’s just shut the propane off. When the people don’t have any heat, I think it will resonate. Somebody has done something stupid here, somebody has done some stupid pet trick.

Harney: A big change has gone in our County over the years. It’s the housing that is built out there, which is… The building has gone up in the County. It has become more like city oriented the way they are building and they’re expecting the services that they get in the communities. I understand that. At the same time, we need to look at maybe changing legislation. We have 2 alternatives here. Either we can come up with an exemption of some sort or they need a drop off point. I think that’s about the only 2 choices we have at this point. I think we need to work something out at that level.

Feick: Because of the unequal treatment, you have grounds that the garbage industry could if they wanted to, and I’m not speaking for them and would not, sue you. They’d win immediately.

Harney: We’re not arguing the unequal treatment because, like they said, it’s under the Code, where the oil services, we have to give them permission to go on those roads, where this is developed and it’s something that’s not addressed in the Code.

Feick: Well, this isn’t rocket science. It’s about as simple as whether water runs off of a slanted roof faster than a flat one as I mentioned earlier in the day. Pick up the garbage.

Lehman: My contention is here, like Nick said, they haven’t had a problem in the past. What is your direction to the DOT and the Sheriff’s Department, Mike? Do you tell them who is exempt or do they have to have… My take right now is let them continue hauling under exemption. This year, if we have sit down and write another policy or sit down with them and try to come up with something that they need to come out in our direction that you would give them permission to keep hauling.

Gardner: I don’t know why all of a sudden the change. I got the call from Nick last week and we hadn’t done anything different. We put the signs up, just like we do every year. The way the exemptions are translated to the Sheriff now is, when we issue permits, we send copies of the permits we issue down to the Sheriff’s Department so they have a copy and we have a copy and the individual has a copy they carry in their vehicle.

Neuzil: Do the haulers have smaller trucks, even if they are over the 8 ton, do you have smaller ones over other trucks? Are they all exactly the same? I’m just saying, in your fleet, could you use your…

Hagen: They get heavier.

Yutzy: Actually, our 2 trucks that we use on residential are the lightest that we have.

Neuzil: OK.

Hagen: But, there are things to be said that way, too. He’s talking about a single axle truck. You can get illegal on it as well as you can on a dual axle truck. It’s the difference between a lady’s heel. If you’ve got the big heels on a lady’s shoe, the pound per square inch pressing on that does less damage than a spike heel. So, does a single axle truck do less damage because it has a little lighter than a dual axle truck, no.

Harney: The trucks that you basically use now, what is their base weight on those?

Yutzy: I think ours comes in about 27, 28,000.

Harney: Then I know it varies a lot, but as a general rule, about what does a load weigh when you go to the landfill?

Yutzy: We’re legal up to 40,000, is where we’re legal.

Feick: This Board of Supervisors created this problem over the previous history when they allowed all the building, so solve the problem with common sense.

Lehman: OK, Jerry, we appreciate your concerns, we’re mulling it over right now. We’re up here to make the decision, we appreciate your comments and stuff, but it’s discussion here of the people that if you don’t pay any County taxes, I think we’re concerned here with County residents and the businesses that serve them, and our staff that has to adjust our policy out there.

Feick: I’m concerned if whether you’re capable of thinking correctly on this issue.

Lehman: Well we appreciate your interest.

Feick: I think the public will agree.

Lehman: OK, they can do that at election time if they have to then. I guess my take on this is they’ve been doing this in the past and they haven’t been bothered. I would like to see them issued permits and I don’t know if we need, just as a direction to Secondary Roads, just issue permits to these waste haulers to get through this season. Sit here and review this, they have something else, criteria that needs to be done. But like Nick said they haven’t had a problem in the past and I don’t see where they’d need to have a problem at this point.

Neuzil: And Mike, what would you like from us? I mean do you need some formality to this, is this a decision that you just need direction from 3 of us to say, hey allow waste haulers permits? At the same time I’d like to see that probably added as far as something to discuss over the next year so that we have a formal policy for waste haulers.

Gardner: Yes, 3 of you tell me that you’d like me to….

Neuzil: I don’t have a problem with it either this year, but again as long as it’s… Number one, I’m glad that you all came together. That number one shows the cooperation and concern amongst all the businesses, so I congratulate you for all working together on this. Again, that’s something maybe we can invite you in to see if we can come up with if there are any other alternatives as we threw out so that we have fairness amongst all of you. That’s really one of my biggest concerns as well so….

Lehman: I’ve heard, Pat voiced an opinion, he’d like to see lower weights, but you’re going to make more trips to keep your weight down, you’re traveling the roads twice as often and that can’t accomplish that either.

Hagen: Well it’s not like we’re on these roads everyday either. We’re going out there in most cases, I can’t speak for some of my competitors, but I know the dynamics of the industry, you’re only out there on these roads once a week.

Lehman: Maybe on a chip seal portion to get to a different area maybe once a week.

Yutzy: Not usually.

Lehman: I live on Sycamore Street, I saw, and won’t mention which truck, but it went by today and I know the road is embargoed, but they may have to travel my road to get to a different area. But that’s what Mike tries to work out with the fuel, is what’s your road, what can you take to avoid that chip seal embargoed road. There might be another route, it might be a little longer way around, but I guess that’s what we appreciate and that’s what the other, whether it’s a farmer or a fuel, they try to work around so that the least impact… I know that complicates things for you but beware…

Yutzy: Well Coos Falls is an example. Coos Falls is 50 yards and then you get onto Amana Road. For us to get on to Amana Road, we have to go clear up into…

Lehman: Good point.

Yutzy: Clear up in Shueyville or Swisher and back down to get those roads, rather than go across to 15.

Lehman: I don’t think when Mike issues the permits, he doesn’t need a route, he just discusses it with people. I know when farmers go out there they need to get registration of the trucks and stuff like that. I don’t know to avoid getting a ticket how far he’s going to have to go to designate trucks. I know you have a lot of different trucks, but some type of list of license numbers or something like that. But I guess that’s my take on it in light of what Nick said. It hasn’t been a problem in the past, but I think we need to look at this thing for future use. But I don’t see where you should be penalized, we’re halfway into this embargo season now. I don’t want to mention what the status of any tickets are you have, I don’t know how that can be handled.

Yutzy: I don’t know, we’ll work it out with Court I guess.

Lehman: But that may be something you point out to the judicial department, that you have been issued permits since then. Any other…

Hagen: Well I appreciate your time in listening to us and working with us on this because I do think it’s a major issue that I think that maybe years back it wasn’t so much an issue.

Lehman: OK, appreciate you coming in as a group and well spoken and we’ll try to work this out.

Yutzy: Thank you very much. Do you think you could help us out with the process of acquiring the permits, what is the process?

Gardner: Just come out to our office on Melrose Avenue and we can put it together for you, but I will need drivers names and license numbers.

Yutzy: OK. And the license numbers.

Gardner: Yes.

Lehman: I appreciate the dilemma this may create for Mike and the people here, they may assume that they’re able to drive other trucks for deliveries and pickups and that’s not necessarily the case. This is Paul’s and my view of different criteria, the nuisance of health. When we’re talking about building materials and stuff like that, I don’t consider that. And that’s Mike’s judgement, but I think we’re giving him at least two of the three of us. I think Pat realizes that the hands are kind of tied, but would like to see that the waste…

Harney: I’m not objecting to it.

Lehman: Well I knew you weren’t, but I knew you wished there was a different solution. I’m not putting you down, I’m just saying that you wish there was a different solution and I don’t think there is one today.

Yutzy: Well as a group I think we would all be willing to work with you in the future to resolve this.

Lehman: OK, thank you very much. Any other inquiries from the public? Kind of limit your time here, we’re not in sweeps week.

(Continued in Part 4)