• Executive Session: Evaluation of SEATS Director Lisa Dewey

• Executive Session: Evaluation of General Assistance Director Kay Hull

• Progress Report: Veterans Affairs Director Leo Baier

• Site Visit: Sheriff’s Department

Chairperson Lehman called the Johnson County Board of Supervisors to order in the Johnson County Administration Building at 9:08 a.m. Members present were: Pat Harney, Mike Lehman, Terrence Neuzil, Sally Stutsman, and Carol Thompson.

Motion by Stutsman, second by Harney, to enter into Executive Session at 9:08 a.m. for an annual evaluation of SEATS Director Lisa Dewey under section 21.5(1.i), Code of Iowa, "to evaluate the professional competency of an individual whose appointment, hiring, performance or discharge is being considered when necessary to prevent needless and irreparable injury to that individual’s reputation and that individual requests a closed session." Roll call: aye: Neuzil, Stutsman, Lehman, Thompson, Harney.

Motion by Stutsman, second by Neuzil, to leave Executive Session at 10:30 a.m. Roll call: aye: Neuzil, Stutsman, Lehman, Thompson, Harney.

Recessed at 10:30 a.m.; reconvened at 10:44 a.m.

Motion by Stutsman, second by Harney, to enter into Executive Session at 10:44 a.m. for an annual evaluation of General Assistance Director Kay Hull under section 21.5(1.i), Code of Iowa, "to evaluate the professional competency of an individual whose appointment, hiring, performance or discharge is being considered when necessary to prevent needless and irreparable injury to that individual’s reputation and that individual requests a closed session." Roll call: aye: Neuzil, Stutsman, Lehman, Thompson, Harney.

Motion by Thompson, second by Harney, to leave Executive Session at 11:30 a.m. Roll call: aye: Neuzil, Stutsman, Lehman, Thompson, Harney.

Stutsman asked Veterans Affairs Director Leo Baier if he was familiar with Oxford House. He said he was, and that they had veterans who had been using it. He said that it was a private enterprise with its own government and rules; he hadn’t been to it yet, but had been invited to stop by. Baier said that they had 8 veterans that could reside there. Baier said he insists that the veterans work with Job Service, because the job employment situation is still good in Johnson County. Baier said he intended to write a letter of support to area Senators and Representatives asking them not to shut Workforce down. Stutsman asked Baier if he uses Workforce, and he said all of the time. Baier explained that it was a free service, unlike Manpower, Norrell, and others. Thompson asked Baier if most of his clients were able to get a full-time job that supported them. Baier said yes, most who are able and willing to work find something. He noted that some are unable to work because of chemical substance abuse problems and other things of this nature, but these people can apply for SSI. Lehman asked what would happen to clients in Oxford House who were unable to pay their rent. Baier replied that if they couldn’t pay the rent they would have to leave. Lehman asked what veterans were doing once they had used their 4 assists and Baier said that they moved on.

Baier said that it was his opinion that he has made a lot of progress in Veteran’s Affairs. He said that when he first came there were no agendas and they weren’t taking minutes, but they now comply with the Iowa Open Meetings Law.

Thompson said that what she has heard is if Baier is going to maintain current guidelines, then he will need increased funding. He confirmed this was the case. He said that because Johnson County is strong on employment, people are moving in. As a result of that, Baier said, he thought they would have to increase the amounts of assistance. Thompson asked Baier if he had given any thought to what he would do if the Board did not increase his budget? She said that the Board gave Baier a budget that he had asked for and that the Board was assuming that Baier thought this budget was going to be adequate. She said that it was not the Board’s policy to, year after year, give people increased amendments. Baier said that he would just ask for more money during the next budget session. Thompson asked if he had given any thought as to what he would do this next year. Baier said that he had already done it this year, and said they would try to get by as best they could, this year. Baier said that from now on, if he was still around, he would just ask for more money. He said that was seemed to be what other departments have done.

Thompson said no, they don’t. Lehman said that the point was, what if the Board didn’t give Baier the money? What if they had to prioritize, and freeze everybody’s budget? Neuzil added that this might be the case. Baier said that in this case, he guessed they’d just have to cut back on their spending. Baier said he wouldn’t want to close their doors, certainly. Thompson asked Baier if he had given any thought to lowering his guidelines back to more in line with what General Assistance was? Baier asked why Veteran’s Affairs would want to reduce what they pay out? Thompson answered, because they didn’t have enough money to continue those guidelines. Baier asked if they were telling him that they would not consider keeping them at the same level they have now in the future assistance? Thompson said that it seemed to her that they had no alternative. Baier said that things kept going up all the time; they don’t come down. He said that the landlords weren’t asking less money, but more money all the time.

Thompson said General Assistance’s guidelines are lower. Baier said that he had noticed General Assistance has a lot of money in their budget, a lot more than his budget, in total. Lehman and Stutsman pointed out that General Assistance serviced over 800 people. Lehman said that the Board was saying if Baier ran out of money, then General Assistance might have to take care of them, and the dollars they are going to get are less. Lehman said this was a heads up to Baier that the Board was only going to have so much money; they might have to decide to freeze everybody, and when the money was gone, it was gone. Lehman said that the burden was going to be on Baier to tell people it was gone, or try to reduce each amount to serve more people. Baier said he had done that this year; starting in December, he had reduced the numbers back.

Baier asked if there were any other questions on the handout he had given the Board. He said he did want to mention one thing, under the IAR, Interim Assistance Reimbursement Program. Baier said that if somebody came into his office and had zero income, he would insist that they file for SSI. Baier said that he would give them assistance in the meantime, and when approval was given from SSI, the assistance Baier had given would be reimbursed. Baier said he saw this as an opportunity to help his funding situation. Neuzil said this would be great. Baier said he sent the forms in and said he wanted to participate in this program.

Neuzil said that he too was concerned what was going to happen in the future of government at the state level that was going to affect county government, as well. Neuzil said particularly if the Iowa legislature was voting to cap the amount of money that they were able to spend, or freeze them, that was a problem. Baier said that he thought the Board was right, with watching the budget. Neuzil said that he wanted to avoid the situation where, in month 10, they were out of money, and the Board couldn’t give that money. Baier said that the Board had given him more to work with for next year, and said he would try to live within that if they possibly could. He said that he didn’t like to come back and ask for more money, just as the Board didn’t like to hear it. Neuzil and Thompson agreed. Baier said that he didn’t want to have to shut the doors, either, and couldn’t imagine the Board wanted a bunch of veterans complaining to them, either.

Recessed at 11:55 a.m.; reconvened at 1:32 p.m.

Stutsman explained that the Board of Supervisors had decided to do site visits with each of the elected officials, to keep the lines of communication open. Carpenter said that they had not been told about this. Lehman said the Board does site visits with each of the department heads, and noted that this visit was not because of anything particular that had come up. Stutsman pointed out that they had done a site visit with the County Attorney last month, and talked about the budget, general operations, and upcoming events.

Carpenter said that he wanted to start with Sheriff’s Captain Dave Wagner, because the main concern in the Sheriff’s Department is with the jail. Carpenter said that he was concerned because they had a major situation over the weekend, and he didn’t get calls from any of the Supervisors to see what was going on or they could do to help. Wagner said on Friday night, 2 out of 3 holding cells were tied up with people who were at risk to do harm to themselves. Because of this they were faced with having more difficulty classifying and housing special management people, and they had nowhere to place the drunks that came in. Wagner said this put a strain on the whole jail, and noted there had been a management problem with the people that had been returned from the hospital after they had injured themselves. Harney said this was the first he had heard that the jail was tied up; they had known only of an incident where 3 people tried to harm themselves. Carpenter replied that there had been press releases. Neuzil asked Carpenter if he wanted the Board to call him every time an incident occurs. Carpenter replied that everyone said the Board was 100% behind trying to get something done at the jail, but when something happens, the Sheriff’s Department felt like they were all alone. Carpenter said that since the order was issued to not put anybody on the floor, not a day has gone by where they haven’t had people on the floor. In December he had told the Board what he needed, but they basically had cut him off. Carpenter said that $25,000 this year for transporting prisoners wouldn’t amount to anything. Neuzil asked if 5 new employees weren’t going to help? Carpenter replied that it helped in the handling of the jail prisoners, but noted that it didn’t help with the problem that they didn’t have anywhere to put people. Carpenter noted that when they had a situation like Friday when 3 people hurt themselves, this took 3 staff away, and he said they believed there was a good possibility that there was a planned jailbreak. He said that the next night, a guy tried to hang himself. Carpenter said that the situation is not good, and it hasn’t been. Carpenter said that they know that the voters don’t want to build a new jail, but noted that he and his staff can only do so much to house people.

Neuzil said that if there was a situation where people should be shipped out, there was $25,000 to do this. Carpenter said he did not have this money until July 1. Neuzil asked Carpenter if he had any additional money in his budget, and Carpenter said that he did not have any money to ship people out. Carpenter said that they only carryover money he would have was going to be in personnel, with overtime, and this was taboo to touch. Lehman said if he does have extra money to ship people out, when the money ran out he would have to make a decision about whether or not to bring them back to an already crowded jail. Stutsman said that there were always budget amendments, also, in case the $25,000 was not enough. Carpenter said in order to get people off the floor, 30 people would have to be shipped out of the jail, and it would cost $55 or $65 per day per person. Harney noted that they would also be going back and forth taking them to court or for meetings with their attorney. Carpenter said that this was what was so very, very frustrating about the whole situation. Carpenter said that they had to do something to get the jail count down; if they weren’t going to buy land someplace, then they had to put the money into shipping people out. Carpenter said that they were also going to start 90 days of construction, which weren’t going to help them, because the ventilation system would be down; Carpenter said that the Sheriff’s Department was not looking forward to the summer. Neuzil said that he wasn’t either. He said that there were safety concerns with both prisoners and county employees, and told Carpenter that if he thought it was necessary to start shipping prisoners out, then there needed to be a budget amendment to get this going.

Harney said that he was a little reluctant to try and tell Carpenter what to do, as they are both elected officials. Harney said that he supported what Neuzil had said; if Carpenter had gone to the Board before and asked for money, they needed to look at that again, if there were safety issues. Carpenter said that when he left that meeting, it was as if the Board had told him, that’s tough. Carpenter said that the Sheriff’s Department had provided statistics to the Board office and the County Attorney’s office, and then it hadn’t done a thing. He said that the statistics showed the same thing they had told everybody a year ago. Carpenter said that the meetings that were being planned with a panel weren’t going to do anything, and said that they already signed out everybody they possibly could. Carpenter said that if the judges said that they didn’t have to hold anybody, and got the liability off of their shoulders, then maybe they could do something. There are only certain people they can bond out, though; with some charges, the prisoner could not bond out until they had seen a judge. Carpenter said that he had been told many times that they do not have liability, but he continued, they do have a lot of liability, and stated that people were crazy if they didn’t believe that.

Neuzil said that, sadly, this incident was probably the wake-up call that this community needed. Carpenter said that on Friday night, they had gotten a call from the press asking why the prisoners were given razor blades. Carpenter said that he didn’t know of a facility in the country that didn’t give access to safety razors. For hygiene purposes, razors need to be available, said Carpenter. He said that no matter what they did, there was somebody that was trying to attack them for doing wrong, when all they were trying to do was survive. Carpenter said that some figures would be coming out pretty soon from John Neff, who was going to send the Board a letter of the sizes of jails around the state, per population. He said that it would be interesting to see where Johnson County, with 115,000 population, would fit in with the size of the jail.

Neuzil spoke of the injuries to inmates and employees, and showed a report on the subject. Wagner replied yes, that he had been involved. He said that many times it comes to cell removal situations, where you’ve got a problem in the cell block, you get the block locked down or controlled the best that you can, and often times you still have to remove somebody from that cell block to an isolation cell. Wagner said that officers tried to get as much help as they could to do that, but oftentimes these things happen on the spur of the moment and cannot be prepared for. Wagner said that officers are getting hurt. Carpenter said that anytime there was a fight or any kind of a situation with a cell block, there was always a chance an officer was going to get hurt. Carpenter said that because their smallest cell block holds 8, the prisoners would always outnumber the officers. Carpenter said that if the prisoners didn’t want to go into their cell block, they were at the mercy of waiting until the Iowa City Police Department or the County Police get there, because there aren’t 8 people on the floor. Carpenter said that he wasn’t complaining about the 4 extra people as of July 1, because they were going to help. Carpenter said that tempers were hot in the jail, in a closed area. He said that the classifications were important, not only between male and female but there were also racial issues, gang members, and by the type of crime. Carpenter said that Wagner had had a hard time classifying people and keep people apart.

Neuzil said that one of his concerns was, going through the committee process and make this a community effort, the best-case scenario was if they did get something on a ballot with people behind it, they were still talking 3 years. Carpenter said that they can’t wait 3 years. Neuzil said this was what he was trying to bring out; the Board needed to know if there were any temporary solutions. Carpenter said that he personally didn’t think they would find anything out there other than transporting people out and getting the population down to where the State feels comfortable, and then at least the County can breathe. Neuzil said that in his mind, the State was not making the decision. Neuzil said that the decision here had gotten to the point where the jail wasn’t safe, whether the state said so or not. Carpenter said he couldn’t speak for the State, and said he didn’t understand how they let them go on this long. Carpenter said that 2 years ago, the State would never have let it get this bad. They probably wouldn’t have shut them down, but they would have put a cap on the jail. Carpenter said he thought the cap would have been at 70. Carpenter said that he was not keeping people in the jail that didn’t need to be there. He said that they had received a copy of a lawsuit just the other day, and said it was only a matter of time before they got more. Carpenter said that it was not uncommon for them to be sued through the course of the year, but one of these years they were going to be hit hard.

Lehman said that he thought the short-term solution is transportation; the long-term solution could also be transporting, or maybe building, or whatever. Carpenter said that if they had to wait for 3 1/2 years to take care of this situation, he would not be there, and said that some of his staff wouldn’t be, either, because they’ve had all they can take. Lehman said that when Carpenter brought the numbers to the Board, he had used educated projections about what the averages have been, how many people they would have to move out, how long they will have to stay, how many times they’ll have to be brought back for court, etc. Carpenter said that the project they were given as to the cost of housing an inmate out of the County was between $55 and $64 dollars per day, plus $10 per day for transportation costs. Carpenter said that the $10 per day transportation fee came from a study done at Iowa State University about 2 years ago. Carpenter said that if the cap was at 70, they would start to move people when it got past 75-80. Lehman said that when Carpenter had brought his projections in December, the jail was averaging 110-115, and said that they had been averaging over that now. Carpenter said that the 92 figure was the one everybody liked to go on because that is how many bunks they have. However, they can still be over when the count is 90. He said that the 90 number really should be 70, because they need the 20 bunks in there to manage the different classifications of prisoners.

Harney asked if the 4 individuals from the weekend were long-term prisoners, or awaiting trial? Carpenter and Wagner said that at least 2 of them were non-sentenced people with high bonds. The hospital said that they should be evaluated to see if they were candidates for the psych ward. Thompson asked if they were at the psych ward, wouldn’t there be a risk of flight? Carpenter said that it would either be that, or there would have to put an officer with them. Carpenter said that there is no good answer to this difficult problem. Thompson asked if the prisoner had to be kept isolated while they were waiting for the evaluation? She said that he didn’t have 4 places to isolate them. Carpenter replied that this was exactly what he was saying; they didn’t have 4 places to isolate them. Carpenter said that the holding cell would help, by taking care of the Saturday-nighters, for example, but it wouldn’t solve the problem. He said the holding cell might enable them to run at 80 instead of 70. Neuzil wondered what kind of prisoners other counties transported. Harney said that the most economical ones were the long-term prisoners, but said that this doesn’t help with the separating or segregation. Wagner said that other counties would not take any bad prisoners; they would need to transport only the cream of the crop. Carpenter said that they would be stuck with the ones that got hurt, because nobody would want to take them. Lehman said that this accents their problem; even if they’re under 70, prisoners like those limits their space because of segregation.

Thompson noted that if the jail has a prisoner that is a serious problem, their only alternative is Oakdale. Carpenter said the prisoner that is at Oakdale now is the one that the Sheriff’s Department has charges pending against because he assaulted one of the officers. Carpenter said that he would never have done that without the Board’s approval, because he didn’t have it in his budget. He said that he didn’t think there would be anything left in the budget by the time all the bills were paid, other than some extra overtime pay. Harney said that he didn’t want Carpenter to think that the Board was going to try to tell him how to run his jail, because the Sheriff is an elected official. Harney said that he believed that the Board was obligated to give him the means to run the jail properly and adequately. Carpenter said that he believed this, too, and this was why he wanted Harney to go with him to a 3-day school in June put on by the National Corrections Association from Boulder, Colorado at the Iowa Law Enforcement Academy. It was put on for 1 Sheriff, the Jail Administrator, and one of the County Supervisors. Carpenter said it was to show where every player fits and what the duties of each is.

Lehman said Wagner was quoted in the paper as saying that they call other law enforcement agencies and advise them of the crowded Jail. Lehman said that it came out in the paper media that Carpenter asked law enforcement agencies not to bring more people in, and people were asking why he didn’t do that all the time. Lehman said that the public doesn’t understand that Carpenter doesn’t dictate who has to be brought in to the jail. Wagner said that they don’t make this call very often; he trusts that all the agencies know the Jail situation. Wagner said that they were at the breaking point of about 110, with nowhere to go, not even floor space. Wagner said that he had called one of the Iowa City officers and told him that they were packed, and asked if there was any way that the officers could be reminded on the street to write citations or do something besides bring people to jail. Wagner said that he was hopeful they wouldn’t have 25 more people the next day. Lehman said that was the message he wanted to get to the people, that the officers control that; they have an oath to take, and they can’t look the other way on some crimes. Carpenter said that this was a good point to be brought up, because by law no one can tell officers not to arrest someone who has committed a crime. He said that he didn’t see any false arrest charges coming through, and said that he thought people knew what was going on, and knew that the jail was a full house. Lehman said he did not want to send the impression to the public that they control the intake of people into the jail. All they could do was to issue a plea to be as mindful as they can. Wagner said that officers will not accept a new prisoner into the jail without the manpower to properly search and secure them. Therefore, if several people are arrested all at once, there is a backup; officers often have to sit with prisoners out in their car, waiting to get them admitted.

Neuzil asked what impact the roof being fixed would have on the jail. Carpenter said it is going to be a lot of work. Carpenter said that there was an idea that they would convert the lower part of the building into jail and move the office space elsewhere. He said that this idea would not work; once they did construction, it splits the upstairs capacity in half, so they would lose all their room and gain nothing; they’d still have a 92 capacity and the staff would be in the street. He said that there was an article in the paper about this idea, but it’s not feasible. Neuzil asked if this included any additions to this building, even in the parking lot. Carpenter said yes, any reconstruction would remove the grandfather clause that allowed them to double-bunk. Lehman said that any construction or additions on the building would make them go back to the original requirements and standards, a capacity of 46, with single bunks. Carpenter confirmed this, and explained that the national standards changed 6 months after they moved in. The building was actually built under the new federal standards, but because they had opened up prior to this time, they grandfathered the jail in under the old guidelines. He noted that Sheriff’s Major Duane Lewis had come up with this idea, and said that if they had not found this loophole, they probably wouldn’t be having these problems; they would have been dealt with years ago.

Thompson asked if they were very short, or only a few square feet in each cell. Carpenter said he wasn’t sure. He said that the air quality is also poor. Thompson asked if, during the remodeling, there would be times when they would have to empty a cell block. Carpenter said that they were still trying to figure this out. He said that the construction people were going to take the north parking lot, and he hoped they were going to get some street parking. Lehman said that he had spoken with Ernie Lehman, who had said that they would reserve some parking for them. Carpenter said that security-wise, the remodeling would be a nightmare for them. He said that because the construction people were going to be in and out of the cell block areas, he needed a list of all of the workers so they could run background checks on them. The construction workers would also need some sort of ID on them. He said that they were concerned with the construction noise affecting the control center. Carpenter said the project would take 90 days and was going to be more complicated than originally planned because of all the conduits on the walls for the cameras, etc. Carpenter said that they had told him they would like to have the cooling units back up at the end of the day, but said he didn’t know if that was going to happen. They also didn’t know how much power outage they were going to have. The only promise they made was that they would have the fire alarms back on each night. Carpenter said that he wasn’t sure why they were spending a lot of money on this project. Neuzil said that for at least 3 to 4 years they were going to need a roof that didn’t leak, and better air quality.

Lehman clarified that the tour the other day was for the potential bidders. They went through and Facilities Manager Mark Bulechek explained to them what the requirements of the project entailed, and showed them the conduits and the wiring. Carpenter said that going up into the jail opened the eyes of many of them, and said that there were more contractors at the beginning of the tour than at the end. Neuzil asked about the boiler being removed, and how Carpenter intended to use that space. Carpenter replied that he thought it was going to be used by the janitors. He said that they hadn’t been told that it was going to be of any benefit to them. Thompson asked if there was any way it could be? Carpenter said he didn’t know how; it was in the mechanical room and would be too noisy to be a useful space.

Neuzil asked if there was anything else that Carpenter could think of concerning his needs, not only on the jail side of things, but as far as needs for his own staff. Carpenter said that they were doing pretty well right now; they bought different squad cars this year, smaller cars, and they get better gas mileage. He said that they had tried one for a year, and the officer really liked it. There was an 8 mile per gallon difference from the other cars. Carpenter said that they were concerned about fuel prices in the next year or 2. He said that they trade about half of their fleet of marked cars every year, and the unmarked cars every 4 years, usually at around 100,000-120,000 miles, which is when maintenance costs start to increase. Lehman asked what would happen if they begin transporting prisoners. Would they need more vehicles, because they’d be putting more miles on them? Carpenter replied that was something that has been in their budget requests, although it had not been in the budget amendment request that was turned down in December. He said the Board should have known that 2 cars for transportation were in their budget for the coming year, but since the Sheriff’s Department didn’t get the money to transport the prisoners, they don’t need the vehicles. Carpenter said that they were also getting a new van out of this year’s budget soon.

Carpenter said that they are also in the process of getting the video court set up; they are waiting for a cable. Once this was in place, they would be able to do their initial appearances from the Jail, with the judge in the Courthouse and the prisoner still at the Jail. This would save the Sheriff’s Department the trouble of transporting the prisoners to the Courthouse. Carpenter said he was looking forward to this change. Lehman noted that it would still take personnel, but Carpenter said that it would not take nearly the amount of personnel. Carpenter said that he had applied for a law enforcement block grant last year and had received $19,000-$20,000. This year, he said that the County’s share was supposed to be split with the City, $75,000 to $80,000. Harney asked if that was for something specific, and Carpenter replied that he wanted to get it set up so they could have computers in the police cars. Harney asked where they were going to do the video, and Carpenter replied in the Attorney-Client room. Carpenter said that they have applied again for the Justice Grant, which they got $58,000 or $60,000 from in the past. He said this was the one that the Sheriff’s Department had asked for an amendment to get their $12,000 back from paying for it. He said that they have applied for this grant again but did know how much it would be. Lehman said he thought this was for classification of prisoners? Carpenter said yes, it wasn’t through immigration, but was intended for people that were born out of the country. Even though they can be citizens now, the government established a reimbursement system for keeping prisoners that were born out of the country, at about 38 cents on the dollar. Carpenter said this rate could be cut in half this year.

Carpenter said they had also just received a grant for bulletproof vests. They also received a grant through the Governor’s Safety Alliance Program for radars; those funds will actually go back into the General Fund. Neuzil asked about Carpenter’s other sources of revenue, and asked if any counties charge inmates. Carpenter said that some counties do this, and Linn County was one of the first to do that, but the problem is most people in jail don’t have the money to pay for it. He said that his biggest problem is that he doesn’t have the personnel to go after outstanding bills; it’s going to be a losing proposition. Neuzil said that this was always the argument against this, at least in the Iowa legislature. Carpenter said that there was a booking fee that could be charged to the cities, and said it was up to the Board to look at this. Neuzil said that as they begin to look at transporting prisoners, they are going to have to come up with some help. Carpenter replied that a former Supervisor had told him that if they started billing the cities for booking fees, they might be double-taxing, since the cities already pay taxes to the county. Carpenter said that the Board would have to make this decision. Carpenter said that the booking fee was $20-$25; when Iowa City brought in a prisoner, they would charge the city that fee for the booking, not for the housing. By law, Carpenter said, the Chief of Police is responsible for fingerprints, booking, and getting the paperwork in to the State.

Neuzil said that because they were in a situation where they were cutting or freezing budgets, they were going to have to look for all kinds of revenue resources, and that might be one of those. Carpenter agreed that that was one option that he thought might be viable. Stutsman asked who was talking about freezing budgets? Neuzil said he was just saying if they got in a situation where they had to start transporting prisoners, there were all kinds of different things out there that the Board was going to have to explore. Neuzil asked who would make that kind of decision in regards to booking, and Carpenter replied that the Board would do so. Thompson said that they would bill the cities, who would probably pay, as opposed to trying to bill prisoners, where they would be amassing debt. Carpenter said they could look at this issue. Stutsman suggested that if they were talking or thinking about doing this, they should start the process soon. She said its only fair to let the cities know as early as possible so they could start planning for it in their budget cycle. She said that she was not saying one way or the other whether she was supportive of this, but if the Board wanted to have a discussion on this, they needed to give the cities fair warning of their direction. Neuzil asked if that discussion belonged in the upcoming committee process, when Pat and Carol, were going to be having conversations with other elected officials? Lehman said that he thought this would merit mentioning, to say that it basically boiled down to funding.

Carpenter asked about the purpose of the Committee. Thompson said that it was just a Committee to meet with other entities to see how they would be willing to structure a public forum. She said that they had agreed to participate in a public forum, but the Board didn’t know who was going to be there, if there would be a moderator, who would talk, how long people would be allowed to talk, where the forum would be. Carpenter again asked what the purpose was. He said that he was hearing some feedback from people who were on the Committee a year ago who felt as if they had gotten pushed off. They had spent a lot of time on this issue, and then they were put off. Carpenter said that he understood the Board wanted to put another Committee out, and asked who this Committee was going to talk to, and who they were going to talk about. Harney said that he would never second-guess what that Committee did; they had done a great job, as far as he was concerned, and put a lot of information out. Harney said that there has been a lot of criticism from the community that they were not also allowed to have input. Carpenter said that the community did have input, as they had a chance to be on that Committee. Harney said there were certain individuals who said that they didn’t have input, and the Board was trying to open that up so that they can have input. Carpenter said that the problem was that it was a minority that says that, and it was the minority that is against everything they do. Carpenter said that he would hate to sit down and go through a forum again and face the same group of people they faced the last time. He said he would like to know what was going to be accomplished, what was going to be different this time than the last.

Stutsman said the input was to get people’s ideas on how to reduce the jail population. Carpenter said that most of the people they would be talking to wouldn’t have the foggiest idea of what they’ve got to stand by. He said there are very few people that have anything to say about that, the number one person being a judge. Stutsman said that she envisioned not only input, but also education. She said that she thought Carpenter was right; people wanted a very simplistic, easy answer to this, and they don’t understand the complex problem. She said that it’s not as easy as telling police to walk on by and not arrest somebody that’s drunk and throwing up and peeing in the ped mall. She said that it was much more complicated than that, but part of it was just educating the public on what the limitations are. She said that the public forum would hopefully answer some of the questions that the community continues to barrage them with. Carpenter said that he understood this, but said what he was getting at was how many forums have they had, and how many people have showed up? He said that it was the same people all the time, the people that are against them, and the forums were a waste of time. Lehman said that to carry this to the next step, it’s not as simple as Wagner calling law enforcement and saying, don’t bring anybody. Lehman said that people don’t understand that there are criteria out there that they have no control over. He said that maybe the public needs to be educated on the fact that the police do not have a choice, either. Carpenter said that they could have all the forums they wanted, but there would probably be the same 5 or 6 people showing up, and they would be against everything they wanted to do or try to tell them. Stutsman said that Carpenter was right, and said that at least they would have satisfied that part of the community that claimed they didn’t have any community input. They could answer that they had held the forums.

Neuzil said that they still had to get the community behind this, and wondered how they would do that. Carpenter said the only way the public was going to understand what they were doing was when it started costing them, as in Washington County. Stutsman said that they didn’t even understand that. Thompson said that this idea didn’t seem to have worked in Washington County. Carpenter said they should wait and see. Stutsman said that they were putting half of a million dollars into the Jail, and said that she thought the public would recognize that. Carpenter said that was exactly what he just got done saying; he wasn’t sure the current building was worth a half a million dollars. Stutsman said exactly, and said that when they had passed this in the Boardroom, she had thought, think what we’re doing, putting half a million dollars into the building. She said that if this were her personal home, she would say no, tear it down and start all over again, or look at other options. She said because of the community’s response, they have to upgrade the building. Carpenter said they have to be realistic; he said he knew there were all kinds of ideas about going across the street, all things that have been looked at. Carpenter said that they could not expand at the current facility for the price they could at a new location. He said that the only thing that keeps that from happening is the fact that the other 2 individuals want it next to the Courthouse. Carpenter said that he was telling the Board that it did not need to be next to the Courthouse. There was absolutely no benefit, except for one or 2 people, in having the Jail and the Sheriff’s Department next to the Courthouse. He said there was not benefit to the Sheriff. Carpenter said he didn’t believe a new Jail was going to be built while he was Sheriff, so he was not looking out for himself. He said that the Sheriff needed to be someplace that was accessible to the County, and should be located where the jail is at, not at a different location.

Carpenter said he knew this occurred in some counties; in Linn County, the Sheriff just went out to a different area. Carpenter asked what was going to happen in 20 years when they wanted to expand? He said they had a bunch of money sitting in the jail and they can’t go anywhere. He said Linn County was going to be asking the same questions that Johnson County was asking now: why did that group 20 years ago not put footings under this building, so they could expand upwards? Carpenter said that as far as size, the whole city block at the current site would not be big enough to build what they need for the next 20 years. He said statistics have shown that they would be looking at 250 inmates in 20 years, and that was even with in-house detention. This number took 15-20 off the top through work release and other sentencing. Carpenter said that he didn’t know how to get the word out, but was so frustrated with meetings and people didn’t show and didn’t care. Thompson said that there were other meetings where the public did attend. At those meetings, ideas were put out that people accepted as true, such as keeping the Jail near the Courthouse. She said there was no one there to refute those ideas, so they were accepted. Carpenter asked if anyone had discussed financing? Thompson said no, no one discussed anything; it was an idea that got out there, and everyone believed it and it went against the bond issue. Carpenter asked Lehman if they could buy the amount of ground near the Courthouse, when it probably had to be condemned, cheaper than somewhere where the land didn’t have to be purchased? Carpenter said the jail site had to be somewhere where it could be expanded in 20 years, because it was never going to get to the point where they were going to start releasing people.

Thompson pointed out that Carpenter had started out saying that he wanted the jail to be here, but one idea at a time, he looked at it carefully, and gradually he became convinced that what they needed to do was move. Carpenter said that the key was expense, which was the main problem right now. He said that if they had money, they could build a jail tomorrow. He said that any architect would say that building downtown, the expense goes up. Thompson said that the Board felt it had to find a way to bring the public along the same way it had come, one step at a time, where you examine each idea, realize it isn’t going to work, and then try another one. Neuzil asked about the committee process; were they talking about alternatives or new jails or locations? Thompson said it was all of those things. Neuzil said he wasn’t sure if that was very clear yet. Stutsman said that there should be more communication between the Sheriff and the Board about what’s going on. Carpenter said with alternatives, he would give one or 2 things: either more personnel and another building someplace, which was expensive. He said one of the things the Board had talked about was having some kind of rehabilitation center. He said that that is not what a jail is. Neuzil said they needed to explore that and make it public, and said that he thought Carpenter’s observations are correct. Carpenter guaranteed that his observations were correct, because there were no doctors or nurses that would work for what a deputy sheriff works for. Neuzil said they were looking for an alternative that’s cheaper than putting them in the jail for $65 a day, or whatever it cost. Neuzil said that he thought this idea still needed to be a part of the process, because it was one of the reasons people gave for voting against the jail. Neuzil said he was looking for trying to fill in all those holes to get the community behind this and get a bond passed, hopefully without having to spend money to transport. Neuzil said they were to that point where, realistically, that wasn’t going to happen.

Carpenter stated that nobody would buy into building a jail until they found out what it was going to cost. He said that if prisoners kept pouring into the jail, nobody realized it or cares about it except the Sheriff’s Department. Harney said that Carpenter had mentioned the alternatives, and said that was part of what they needed to be looking at. Harney said that most people didn’t understand that a detox center required a facility and a staff. MECCA and other places would not take an intoxicated person. Harney said that the reality was that they had to come to the Jail until they’re sober, and then they can be mandated to go for treatment somewhere. Carpenter noted that in Cedar Rapids, St. Luke’s no longer takes intoxicated people. Neuzil said that this too needed to be part of the committee process and explored and determined that this is what it would cost to do that versus what it would cost to put a person in jail. Neuzil said that this needed to be part of the open process so they could fill in those gaps so that more and more people will say that the County does need a new jail.

Thompson said the hard part for the Board was people who criticized the City and blamed the City for the County’s jail problems. Thus, she said, the Board had not felt very comfortable hosting a forum on their own where someone could come and criticize the City. Thompson said that they wanted to be very careful that the City agrees to whatever is decided upon. Carpenter said that came from a handful of individuals who do not want people arrested because they don’t want those laws in effect. Carpenter said those people had nothing to do with what the Sheriff’s Department was doing. Lehman said the Board needed to go back and regroup, answer those questions and get the right information out. Carpenter said that he didn’t think the Sheriff’s Department had gotten a fair shake, and stated that he really did not believe in letters to the editor. Carpenter said that the person who got the last piece of paper, the last bit of ink, is the one that is going to win. He said he didn’t think they got a fair shake, because if they could cause a controversy, that was what could be printed during the year. Stutsman said that the small group of people to whom Carpenter had referred had been very effective in getting their message out about the Jail issue. The Board, she said, was trying to do a better job of educating what it saw as the problems. She said this wasn’t just something they were doing because they wanted to build a new Jail out on the west edge of Iowa City. Stutsman said that this was a need that the Board was recognizing because of safety issues with staff as well as with inmates. She said that they couldn’t do that until, as Neuzil had said, they had the community understanding and supporting it. Stutsman said that after the failure of the bond issue, she thought the Board agreed that it hadn’t done a good job of educating the public about what the issues were.

Harney said that there was a large perception of people out there that really believe that there are a lot of people in jail that don’t belong there. Harney said that studies show that the majority of the people going into the jail do not return, the public detoxes, the disorderlies, and things like that. They’re in once but then they do not re-offend, and will not be back. Harney said that people don’t understand that people aren’t just sent up there for intox for days; it’s usually an overnight until they’re sober. Neuzil said they could do everything possible and do it right and people might not pass it, and the sad reality is when they start the cut to pay for transportation, that might be the answer. Carpenter said that he was telling the Board that the glass was full, and everything from now on was flooding something; there were going to be people hurt, and paying for it in the long run. Carpenter asked the Board to pass that on, and gave credit to his staff. He said that there were going to be situations that were going to create some real problems for the County. Harney said that the Board had discussed putting $750,000 into this building and the staff, and said that they knew they weren’t gaining a lot by doing it, but they had to meet the safety needs and the issues upstairs with the leaky roof. Carpenter said that they appreciated this, but it did not solve their problem, and didn’t make it any easier or safer to go to work. Harney said this was true.

Carpenter said that the figures weren’t going down, but up, so it was going to continue to get worse. The only question, he said, was when the Board wanted to start transporting prisoners. Carpenter said that, realistically, they should have shipped 6 months ago, or even a year ago; that was what he would have wanted. Carpenter said that the only reason they didn’t was that he didn’t want to make it a political issue before the vote, because they’d say he had done it because he wanted to get the new jail. Neuzil said he would have been accused of that, and Stutsman agreed. Carpenter said that he didn’t care, because personally he didn’t gain a thing, as he wasn’t going to be here next year. Neuzil said that would have been the blame for why it didn’t pass. Carpenter said he wasn’t trying to build a Taj Mahal, but at the same time, whoever came in as Sheriff, something needed to be done, because they were going to have a hell of a mess on their hands. Carpenter said they Board needed to think about whether they would have the staff here 3 1/2 years from now, also. He said that they were lucky right now, because people were sticking around. He said there were places where you could get paid more. He said he wasn’t complaining about wages, and said that he learned a long time ago that law enforcement wasn’t a place to get rich. Carpenter said that the people here might decide that they’re gone. He said he wasn’t trying to use this as a threat.

Stutsman asked where they were on the committee process? Thompson said that Carol Peters was setting the meeting up with all the cities, who were still deciding exactly what to do. Only Iowa City and Coralville said in the Board meeting that they wanted to do it. She was still checking with the University. Lehman asked Thompson if she felt she had the mission and goals? Thompson said that the goal was to decide and flesh out what this public forum would look like. Carpenter cautioned the Board that they should stay away from someone in law enforcement on the Committee. He said they were walking a tight wire between what law enforcement was supposed be doing and what the Board wanted them to do. Lehman said that they needed those people to reinforce the policies that are out there. Carpenter said that it was a little different with him; he was elected. The chiefs of Police were not, and said that if you started with them on the Committee, it was problematic. Harney said that they weren’t going to be on a committee, per se, but were representatives; the city managers or administrators were also invited to attend. Neuzil said they need the question answered why the Jail bond didn’t pass. He said that if they had the chiefs or administrators saying that, the citizens of the community or County know what the policies are: these are the laws, and these are the ways that we enforce those, and if we don’t enforce those kind of things, then we lose our license or certification. Neuzil said that they needed them to say that to fill in another hole.

Harney asked if there were any issues beside the jail that Carpenter would like the Board to know about? Thompson asked about the status of the Communications System, the computerized equipment. Lewis said that they didn’t really have any computerized equipment; what they were trying to do was get relay stations out in the county to improve communications. He asked Thompson if that was what she was talking about; it was the 911 issue which was being funded through 911. Lewis said the upgrade to the alarm systems in the jail were also underway; it was taken care of, ordered, and in place, but would not be installed until the roof is finished. Lehman noted that the Sheriff’s Department had gotten their contracts from the small towns; they had been signed a week or 2 ago. Carpenter said that they had raised them about 5%. Neuzil said that it had gone real smoothly; he didn’t hear anything. Carpenter said they were sitting pretty good as far as equipment. Through the federal grant, they were trying to put computer terminals in their cars. He noted that Iowa City had had these for years, and Coralville’s had it, too. Lehman asked what this would do, and Carpenter said it would allow the officers to do a lot of their own checks out in the cars. He said that it was about $10,000 per car to put this in. Harney said that these served a dual function, allowing the officer to pick up better as well. Thompson asked Carpenter about the mattresses that the prisoners sleep on. He said he had ordered them.

Neuzil asked about how the process was going to work with the new employees on July 1st. Carpenter said that they have interviewed 15; 6 of them are taking the UMPIs tomorrow night, and they were hoping to offer the job within the next week and have them on board shortly after the first of the year. He said that they would have to break them down as of 1st of July. They won’t be able to send all 4 of them to the Academy at the same time, but hopefully they’ll be able to send them within the next year, given 4 different classes. He said that the law stated that they have to get them trained at the Academy within a year; he liked to get their feet on the ground and teach them what was going on here before they sent them to the Academy. Neuzil asked about the other position, the matron. Carpenter said that they hadn’t hired that, and Lewis confirmed that this was on hold pending negotiation over some schedules.

Thompson asked if all the locks were working? Carpenter said no, but they were working on them right now. Thompson asked if he had a hope that they were all going to work? Lewis said they would like to hope so. Lehman asked if these were the interior cell doors, and Carpenter said they were the main. Stutsman asked how much was spent on those. Lewis said they came out of Mark Bulechek’s budget, and that he didn’t know. Neuzil asked if they had gotten some things painted? Carpenter said that Wagner had had some inmates painting. Thompson said it looked a lot better up there. Carpenter said that unfortunately there were only a couple of inmates who could do it, and one was moving out.

Carpenter said that he thought there would be increases in need for services; they were not running any shorter than they were last year. He said they didn’t have to worry about job security. Carpenter said as far as accomplishments, just to survive was an accomplishment right now. He said he seriously felt this way. He said that they were hoping to keep the fuel costs down due to the more fuel-efficient cares. Lewis said that if they started transporting prisoners, it would offset the gain completely and put them on the other side. Harney asked if they knew to where they would be transporting prisoners, and Carpenter said that they knew they could get into Linn County. Carpenter said that Cedar County also has their new Jail going and they would have some room there as well. Neuzil said that Johnson County would have all kinds of friends. Thompson asked if we could work on something with Linn County like we have with the Linn County detention center, a contract? Carpenter said he didn’t know; he would hate to zero down on a contract, because if they didn’t need the room, they wouldn’t want to be paying for it. Thompson said that there were clauses in that contract that cover that situation. Carpenter said that he didn’t think Linn County would ever be in a position where they’d have to refuse a prisoner; they have enough people and space. He said that the problem was if there was a problem prisoner, they may be more apt to take him if they’re getting all of Johnson County’s business. Carpenter said that Cedar County would do it a little cheaper, but maybe if they weren’t getting all of Johnson County’s business, maybe they wouldn’t want the problem child.

Carpenter said he didn’t think they had any changes in operations. They may be doing some moving around with appointing some new staff supervisors. He said that there weren’t going to be any changes of major concern in the next couple of months. Stutsman said that she thought this had been a good meeting, and said that the Board has found that they hadn’t taken the time to sit down and talk. Carpenter said they are going to be replacing their firearms in the next month or so. He said that there was money in the budget to do it, and was going to cost a little bit more than anticipated, but it was a guarantee and an insurance policy. He said that the firearms they traded in will not go to the public. Thompson asked what would happen; would they be reconditioned and sold to smaller law enforcement departments? Carpenter said yes. Thompson said that was nice, much better than putting them back on the street. Carpenter said the cost was about $6,000 more to trade them that way, but they felt this was worth it in the end, because they wouldn’t hear about the trades from the community later on. Harney said that they basically sell them to other law enforcement agencies or to police offices; they can’t go out to the public. Harney said that an officer could have it as a personal weapon, but not a member of the general public.

Thompson said that Carpenter always budgeted very carefully and came in very close to his budget. He replied that they tried to give back what they think they didn’t use when it wasn’t appropriated right. Lewis said that there was a lot of overtime that they would be giving back, around $30,000 or $40,000. Carpenter asked the Board what they wanted him to do. He said that they should be transporting; should he bring a formal request back to the Board, again? Lewis said that the Board had approved some money on a line item; should they make the assumption that they wanted the Sheriff’s Department to start transporting, and when that money is gone, come back for an amendment? Stutsman said yes. Neuzil said that was what he was trying to say at the beginning of the meeting, to get started with the $25,000.

Carpenter asked if the Board wanted them to come down to a meeting and give them the information they had found out from the other departments regarding billing cities booking fees? Lehman asked if this was something they needed to move on faster than getting together with law enforcement agencies, let them know they were considering doing it? Stutsman said even if they could talk about doing it, their budgets were set. Even if the Board agreed on it happening, she didn’t see how it could happen for at least another year. Lehman asked if there was any point in having a Board discussion; maybe it should be in the committee, is that the place to bring it up and mention it? Stutsman said that the Board needed to discuss it. Carpenter said that people may be upset with him for bringing it up, but it was the fact; it was what was going on. Carpenter said he wasn’t sure that it was the way to go, because he thought it was double taxation. Lehman said that the other law enforcement bodies could decide if they were going to pass it on to the individual; if they guy couldn’t pay, he was back in jail?

Carpenter said that when he first started in law enforcement, the City had their own holding facility, and they didn’t get them until such time they had gone to the judge. Once they had gone to the judge, he said, and the judge had put them on bond, then the city was done and they would bring them over to the County. But with the new jail, that went away, and Carpenter said he wasn’t sure how that happened. It also went out of the code, billing the city so much per day or per diem. He said that he had tried to find out how and where this had gone out, but there was nothing in the minutes anywhere to indicate what had happened. Thompson said that one thing was if they were charging them a city ordinance, the county could charge them, but she said they never charge anybody on a city ordinance. Carpenter said that what they normally do is file a state ordinance to go along with it. Harney asked if there was some way they could charge a processing fee to the individual arrested, like a fine? He said that to him it would be fair for them to pay it, rather than the cities. Lewis said that then they had to try to collect it. Lehman said that this could tie in with their fine. Carpenter said that becomes something with the courts, a court decision more than a jail issue. He said that you could probably have an ordinance where you could bill it, but then you have to have all the ramifications for it, and it takes personnel to figure out how to get them paid. Thompson said that in Linn County, you have to charge it to everyone; you can’t just charge it to people who have money, so over the years, they’ve accrued this huge debt. Since you’re required to pursue debt for 3 years, they’ve had to hire people to be dunning these folks and sending them bills. Harney asked if this was offset by the amount of money you get from the people who pay the fee? Lewis said it was not in Linn County, not originally. Thompson said the only thing they got was a political benefit, because it was very popular with the public. Carpenter got the notoriety of saying that he collected the money from these people; in fact, he was charging them, but he wasn’t collecting from them. Neuzil asked if they should be going after people that don’t have any money, anyway? Carpenter said that this particular county and community and city goes the other way. Thompson said that the one thing they could do was to put a lien against their property, but wondered how many people in the jail have property? Lewis said this was an accounting nightmare also, because someone has to do all that. Thompson agreed, and said they would need an attorney to file those liens and follow them up. Lewis said that they might be able to do it with a civilian, but they still have to hire someone to do it, because it was an accounting mess. Thompson said that whenever they went to collect the money they had to have an attorney to represent the county’s interests.

Lehman said that they have pretty well concluded their discussion. Carpenter said he had to get it off of his chest. Neuzil said that Carpenter should start preparing the budget and start transporting prisoners. Lewis said there won’t be an amendment at this stage; they’ll just say that the Board approved transporting and put $25,000 in it. Thompson said that the Board knew how frugal the Sheriff’s Department was; they won’t be moving 20 people if they don’t have to. Harney said that Carpenter had to set the guideline as to where they were going to start transporting, and said he didn’t want them to transport just to transport. Harney said that they should have a rule of thumb; they shouldn’t be over a certain number, and that number has to get set somewhere. Carpenter said that he had a feeling they were going to be hearing from some people pretty shortly. Lehman said that he might have to tie it in not only to numbers but also to classification; Wagner might have to have some sort of floating rules that take into account people that need to be segregated. Lehman said they could possibly be down to 50 to have a safe operation, not 70. Harney said that he didn’t think they were going to see the state tell them what to do; the state would expect Carpenter to do that. Carpenter said he thought they were going to provide a cap. Harney said that they weren’t going to tell Carpenter what to do with them. Carpenter said that the people laying on the floor were not his problem any more because he had told the Board what the problem was. Neuzil said that the Board does care, and said he appreciated the situation here and he didn’t like it. Neuzil said he was sorry that the community didn’t understand the Jail issue.

Adjourned at 3:07 p.m.

Attest: Tom Slockett, Auditor

By Casie Parkins, Recording Secretary