• County Engineer Mike Gardner: County Participation in Pilot Projects of Recycled Asphalt Or Soy Oil

• Robert Grimm: Governmental Concerns

• Robert Marshek: Concern with Area Junkyard

Chairperson Thompson called the Johnson County Board of Supervisors to order in the Johnson County Administration Building at 9:37 p.m. Members present were: Pat Harney, Mike Lehman, Terrence Neuzil, Sally Stutsman, and Carol Thompson.

Thompson: Now we move on to the informal meeting. The first item of business is from the County Engineer.

Lehman: I can take the lead on that. Pat and I had met with a group of residents on a Saturday and they had come in and we talked about… They were in some of the discussion we had about subdivision road agreements and stuff. They had an interest in doing something on their, these are County roads. Fairly well populated, but not large traffic count. Currently I believe they’re paying for the calcium chloride themselves because it does not meet the criteria of the Johnson County full calcium chloride program. They had given us some estimates. I think that I’d circulate those to the Board, the costs of doing chip seal or recycling asphalt. They were interested in pursuing something along that line. I had emailed that information on to the Board, done a little straw poll and we didn’t feel that the County in our financial situation, was able to do anything financially to do that. Their interest was discussion of them providing the cost to do recycled asphalt with the soy overtopping to keep the dust down. Kind of mesh the product together. Wanted to bring that up for discussion tonight. There’s several individuals here from that area that we’ve met with before, that stayed around for this discussion. I asked Mike Gardner, I know I’ve gotten information from him in the past. I just wanted to throw that open. I don’t know if the Board has some questions. Maybe some of the individuals we spoke to would like to come forward and maybe kind of clarify some of the points I’ve made and further that.

Thompson: Instead of doing calcium chloride you want to do this other thing and pay for it yourselves.

Steven Christ: Correct. I’d like to clarify a comment on that. On the Newberry Avenue, which is approximately 2,200 feet there’s 36 family homes that the only way they can get to their home is via Newberry Avenue. When I talked to Mike, he said that they I think used the figure 8 traffics per home…

Lehman: 8 vehicles per day per home.

Christ: That would more then qualify for the traffic count for calcium chloride, but to be very honest with you we were not interested in having calcium chloride put on the road. So over all these years we’ve been putting the tree sap on the road for dust alleviation. We’ve always been asked to see if there was anything additional improvement because after a good heavy rain you can just see the tree sap going down the road. It is water soluble and does not hold up very well. We have come up with the recycled gravel that they have done on some roads in some subdivisions. What they do is they put it on, it’s a ground up recycled asphalt, maximum of an inch to an inch and a quarter. They put that on 3 to 4 inches thick. They spray that with soy oil, which is biodegradable and accepted. Then they roll that and tamp it. That gives you a permanent dust control road plus it improves the surface. When we had discussed this we had asked to see if we could get permission to do this as a pilot program. Since Johnson County did not have any experience on that and when we talked last time with the gentleman they said they didn’t have any history of this. So we would like to propose that we would like to do this on our road as more of a permanent dust control. With the budget constraints of the County we accept that and we are willing to pay for it. All we are asking for is permission to do this. Now if there is any potholes that develop we’re willing to take care of those and let the County people take a look at this over the next several years and see how this holds up. Because I think this could give the County another alternative to make available to residents in various parts of the County, instead of soy oil or tree sap that this could be an acceptable method. So this is what we are proposing. We’d be glad to answer any questions if anybody else would like to make additional comments.

Thompson: We should probably hear from Mike Gardner too.

Lehman: Have Steve introduce himself too.

Thompson: Go ahead.

Jim Bulechek: I’ve mentioned that Steve talked to M & K from Mount Vernon who is also a contractor for not only Linn County, but I think they work with the dust alleviation program in Johnson County. Although they haven’t done anything with this recycled asphalt as a hard surface dust alleviation type program although they’ve been aware of it. Harney: Jim we need you and this gentleman here to identify themselves for the Auditor.

Lehman: Your address too maybe.

Christ: My name was Steve Christ.

Bulechek: I’m Jim Bulechek. We both live on Newberry, which used to be, by the way, County Park Road, which was in existence 50 years ago. It was renamed Newberry. One of our problems were we lived in that area. Then there was development around Lake MacBride. In fact I think County Attorney White was involved with some of the restrictions and I think the Board of Health imposed a 5-acre restriction, that went to court and I believed was overruled and grandfathered. We’ve had in our area, 25 or 27 homes that were built after that restriction was raised. So we have accumulated a lot of families and a lot of problems related to the dust control and the traffic on this road.

Lehman: I talked to Fred Meyer at M & K. He said they hadn’t done anything for Linn County, but they had done some subdivisions. They don’t have a lot of experience under their belt, maybe a year or 2 max. He said as long as it had a little time to set up and there’s not a lot of heavy truck traffic he felt that it would be a real valuable product. I think, I’m sure the rest of the Board members, Pat and I had a chance to drive these roads. They’re not a wide road, they’re not your standard County road. I’d almost call them a lane. 2 cars can meet, but they’re not high volume, what I’d consider high volume. Although there are a lot of families up there it’s not necessarily a thoroughfare. It’s not something, a short cut people are going to take to gain speed or time.

Christ: The road is 18 feet wide, approximately 2,200 feet in length. The 2 entrances get the heavy traffic because that’s where the families that do not live on Newberry Avenue have access to get into the other streets that are a private development.

Harney: These are looped from the hard surface all the way back around to the hard surface again. It’s not stopping in between.

Lehman: But your request would be to do more then just Newberry or just Newberry at this time, or Oak and 170th.

Christ: Well there’s no people that are here representing, but they were asking for Oak and 170th to be done. Newberry is 2,200 feet, 170th is 3,740 feet and Oak Avenue is 1,320 feet.

Thompson: You folks are going to work out the arrangements about who pays how much for what portions.

Christ: That’s correct.

Lehman: Their timetable now is by May 17th they need to let the County know if they want to go with tree sap or calcium chloride. If they could give some indication that we’re willing to work with them on this, they wouldn’t have to sign up for that program. But they don’t want to be caught in limbo here where they don’t have either product.

Thompson: Well I remember at our previous meeting, Mike said he was looking at trying some of these things. Do we want to hear from Mike about…

Christ: We would like to consider this or for the Board to consider this maybe as a pilot project. Then Mike and his staff can take a look at this road after one-year, after 2-years, after 3-years and see how it holds up. Because I think that this will give a very good alternative to some of the road problems that we have on dust control and at a fraction of the cost of chip seal.

Lehman: But your proposal would be that you would take care of the initial cost of and any maintenance. Basically Secondary Roads would just have to plow snow. Is that kind of what we’re, the area that we’re…

Christ: That’s correct.

Lehman: You would contract from M & K to do any patch work.

Christ: We would do the work direct with M & K. The 2 points that were talked about were cost and liability. This is no cost to the County, a matter of fact it’s a cost savings, because they did put some rock on our road 2 days ago, but they didn’t prepare the road. So all the potholes that were in the road they just threw gravel over the top of them. That’s a very poor way to try to maintain the road, but we would say as far as the liability, I think there would be less liability on a harder surface road then there is on the washboard road that we have now of gravel.

Stutsman: Mike have we ever done pilot projects? This sounds good to me, but I want to make sure we are very clear that this is a pilot project and that we don’t get calls from all over the County saying I hear they’re doing this on Newberry, I want this done on my road. Have we done pilot projects and how do you feel about…

County Engineer Mike Gardner: I guess it’s just a matter of how you define it. The calcium program we went into 10 years ago. We started out a stabilized base, following a bunch of fine materials and we are trying to address this same question. We took Oakdale Road and a couple of other short stretches and called them experimental, the same type of deal. What happened was somebody else came in and said let’s experiment on this as well. Let’s experiment on this. Before we knew it, we have 50 miles of road out there that were experimental miles of calcium chloride stabilized base. What happened at that point was you started getting calls, why is the County paying to have that road done in their experimental miles and not ours. So from that point we went into this safety program where we defined where the County would treat the roads and where they wouldn’t. I’m sure the resolution that created the Dingleberry situation earlier we talked about this evening, was an experiment at one point in 1989 that the Board decided let’s try this. It evolved and Pat mentioned each agreement that came in was a little bit different. Part of that was trying to address problems that we found with the agreements prior to that.

Stutsman: Well if you were going to do a pilot project for recycled asphalt outside of the request, how would you do something like this?

Gardner: We’ve used it. We used it up on Mehaffey Bridge Road last winter when we did the bridge prior to the road grading being done. The bridge was done in the winter and the road grade wasn’t done until last summer. We put recycled asphalt on the approaches to those bridges and had a heck of a time maintaining it. They got chuck hole beat up.

Christ: How did you apply it? Did you put a road oil or a soil oil and roll it?

Gardner: No there was no oil put on the top.

Christ: You just put the gravel down?

Gardner: No the recycled asphalt.

Christ: The recycled asphalt, just like gravel you just put it down. See this is the thing that M & K is proposing. Not to just put the recycled asphalt and let it self compact, but they’re going to be rolling it, tamping it and putting the soy oil on it that helps it cohere and makes it a nice firm road.

Thompson: So how long are you thinking that this pilot project would last? 2 years, 5 years?

Christ: 4-5 years.

Thompson: OK.

Robert Grimm: I’ve been waiting to talk. My name’s Robert Grimm. I think you have a real good idea here. If you’re worried about too many applicants or people, you can limit some applicants, advertise them. You’ve got 10. Probably the best way to experiment would be on a smaller real short area. I think it’s been established up in Minnesota over 100 years ago. But my suggestion would be to write any County seat through the Engineer about St. Cloud or maybe Minnesota in that area and see what they’ve been doing with their soy oils and how they maintain their roads. It’s almost identical to what’s been proposed here. It’s not probably a new concept. But there is probably some new chemicals that could be done for more experimentation on a very limited supply advertised properly. If there’s any problems then that will have to be worked out. I’ve got some more I can say later on.

Thompson: Thank you.

Jack Neuzil: My name is Jack Neuzil. I’ve live on Newberry and I’ve lived there for 33 years. Pat gave me a good idea when he was talking about the ducks. Most of the people don’t even know that we live on a County Road. It’s not any different than the other roads. I think Mike, he saw it and I don’t know Terry would you... If it wasn’t for the fact that it was a terrible road you would think that it would part of Lake MacBride Heights, which they have chip and seal on it. After a 6-inch snow you couldn’t tell where you were, whether you were on a County road or in the subdivision. So it isn’t a road that’s going to have 50 mile per hour traffic on it, throw rocks and all this stuff. I would just encourage you to let us try it. We have a big job ahead of us to get the money to even do it, but there’s no point in us trying to get the money if we can’t do it. So we do have a big task yet ahead.

Neuzil: Mike can I ask you about maintenance of it. I guess that’s probably… Do we have other roads where other businesses take care of the road in a sense? Are you comfortable with that?

Gardner: Izaak Walton Road. It seems to be working except the situation we had between the railroad and the Highway. It had to be addressed.

Neuzil: Scotts Lane has it, but that’s not a County road. It’s where Dick Schwab lives.

Gardner: No.

Lehman: I see some similarities and some differences in what we’ve talked about the Dingleberry. Dingleberry the citizens pay for it, but we monitor it, we apply it or have it contracted to have it put on. In this situation these residents would pay for it and they’d want to make sure that they got their money’s worth. They’d be the one’s that would be calling M & K and say I’ve got some spots that are rough, come out and reapply or patch or something like that. So what you’re proposing is that you would take basically a turn key operation.

Christ: Yes and if there’s after 2 or 3 years or 4 years if there’s a question by the Secondary Road Department that this is not working out or whatever and we’re not taking care of it the way it should be taken care of. Then it can be reverted back to a gravel road.

Thompson: So we’d have some road agreement with you that would cover the 4 years of the pilot project.

Stutsman: Why don’t we vacate the road?

Christ: No, no.

Lehman: It’s too many individuals. You’d almost need a 100% agreement to that.

Thompson: It’s not a subdivision.

Gardner: Aren’t they going to need that though to get the payment for the, to do this work anyway?

Lehman: 100% agreement or close to it.

Thompson: Or the others would have to agree to pay for the ones that didn’t pay.

J. Neuzil: There will be some that probably won’t pay.

Christ: There might be some that will be willing to pay more to have that dust alleviation program taken care of and done right.

J. Neuzil: I think the important thing is we are using, I believe Mike can substantiate, a subcontractor that the County has used and M & K will do quality work.

Christ: M & K is an approved Johnson County dust control person.

Harney: If they’re willing to do this would this would that be allowable for some type of a contract you would honor for X amount of years that they do it and maintain the repairs?

Neuzil: Similar to the Izaak Walton Quarry agreement.

County Attorney J. Patrick White: Yes, I’m sure we could work out an agreement. I don’t know enough about the system to know how much of an agreement we would need. The initial work you could do with just an application for permission to work in the right-of-way. But if it needed a multi-year agreement that could certainly be done.

Lehman: One of their concerns was to have some type of indication that we were willing to do this because they miss their sign-up date. If we told them we weren’t interested at all they could go back and sign up for to have their own payment. They may also run into the situation we were give an indication that we’re willing to do some type of pilot program at their expense and they find out they can’t get enough money drawn up. Can they come back to you or M & K and have it put on at a later time, the soy oil or tree sap or something like that?

Christ: As far as a permit.

Lehman: So they don’t miss that window that normal residents would have to adhere to.

Gardner: I think we could work that out.

Lehman: I just wanted to make sure they don’t get left out with nothing if we miss that.

Gardner: I guess I do have one question. If at the point you’re talking about, in 2 to 3 years or whatever and one party or the other decides that this isn’t working. Whose expense is it going to be to put it back into a rock road at the point?

Bulechek: Well Mike I think that’s right now. What expense are you going to have to fix those potholes? You dumped the rock, which is fine, we love the rock, but the potholes are still there. It’s no more then scarifying the road and that’s what you do with this recycled asphalt. You just scarify it.

Gardner: Well except we’re going to have to bring in more material or something to keep… It’s just like when we reverted the old oil roads. You can’t just go out there and scarify it up. You’re going to have big chunks of material. It’s going to take something beyond that. Then you’re going to have to mix in new rock with it to get it to lay out and keep from binding back together or you get permanent holes in there.

Neuzil: Can that be worked out in that agreement though?

J. Neuzil: We’re hopeful. Of course we want a permanent road that not only addresses the dust, but it’s a better road surface and certainly I think with M & K’s input. Of course they’re trying to sell a product and maybe even develop another, a bigger market in Johnson County for other applications, that that could be part of the agreement.

Lehman: They might pick it up and take it somewhere else, to somebody else.

Stutsman: Well too, I guess you know, half way through this project. You know if the homeowners decide it’s not what they thought it was going to be. They’re not going to pay for it any more, then what?

Thompson: They could pay to have it put back.

Neuzil: As long as it’s in the agreement.

J. Neuzil: Or we could pay for it up front and if there’s cost to put it back then it would have to be written into the agreement.

Thompson: This would need to be on our agenda next week in order for you to meet your deadline. Is there a, let’s just have a straw poll, is there enough interest among the Board members?

Neuzil: I’m interested.

Lehman: I’d like to pursue it.

Harney: Same here.

Lehman: I think we’re saying, if we don’t get something done, they need some type of resolution to go forward with this. But it think Mike said if something did happen here they wouldn’t be left out with some type of dust control. He would allow them to go back to M & K to sign up for soy oil or calcium chloride so they’re not left with just bare gravel and not able to participate in some type of dust control.

Thompson: Mike I felt like you offered several objections that we felt could be met in the road agreement. Do you want to make a recommendation overall to us.

Gardner: I’ve still got some concerns I want to make sure… This isn’t going to work if you don’t have good drainage, because just like any road if the water isn’t allowed to drain off it’s going to sit there and it’s going to create problems in the roads surface. The other concern I have is if you’re talking about bringing in 3-4 inches of material, building your road up that far, you’ve got drop offs. So you’re going to have to somehow…

Christ: No it’s feathered. They feather at the edges. There’s not a drop off.

Gardner: OK, so you’re…

Thompson: Feathered into your driveway.

Christ: I discussed that. I had Fred Meyer out there and he says that they taper that. There’s no drop off.

Grimm: It can go either way.

Thompson: Do you have curbs.

Christ: No.

Thompson: So that doesn’t make a difference.

Neuzil: Gentleman we also have…

Stutsman: Mike were you finished?

Gardner: Yes, those are just 2 concerns that I had right of the top of my head.

Neuzil: We also have other roads if you want to pay for those too. We could certainly use your help.

Bulechek: I think we had better clarify this now. We’re only talking this one road, Newberry. We’re not talking about the other 3 unless those people want to…

Thompson: I guess my hunch about this is that my mother always told me that if it sounds to good to be true, it probably is. If this was as good as you folks are hoping, it probably would be used all over the country. But I mean we haven’t found anything else that works.

Christ: There is, M & K did put one in. It’s Highland Estates, it’s off of Highway 30 near Mount Vernon. They did that subdivision and that was approximately 4-5 years ago. They are so pleased with it now, they’re going through and they’re redoing it. He says when they go back and they redo it they would only need about 1/3 of the material that they had to start with originally.

Harney: So the life of it is about 3-4 years.

Christ: Yes.

Thompson: You understand about this feathering thing though, pretty soon your driveway won’t have any slope, if you add an inch every year. I live in a subdivision where we’re facing this now. We’ve resurfaced our road enough times that the curb is almost filled up and the feathering is making those driveways flat and that doesn’t make a good road then, because there’s no drainage. So you understand that overtime you’ll have that problem. Maybe not the first 5 years.

Stutsman: Well that’s going to be the County’s problem. You know, because I don’t think they’re planning on doing this forever. If it’s successful it’s going to be the County’s…

Christ: A number of years ago, I can’t remember how long ago Jack, 8 or 10. But there was a significant amount of grading down on that road, because from the park entrance the road kind of makes a half circle, then it tapered so the runoffs been great. It really hasn’t been a problem. Some culverts were put in and I don’t think we’re had serious drainage problems since then.

Bulechek: About the time they got all the rock from the railroad. Remember Mike. Were you here then? We had all our gravel from the railroads when they abandoned them. It fixed up the roads pretty good. Until that time we had some pretty good ruts in that, you know in that road. Since they did that, we haven’t had any what I would call ruts. We’ve had the chuck holes up in the entrance at both ends and that’s really been the problem. People drive in the ditch now just to get around those chuck holes.

Stutsman: Well I would like to go ahead with this, but I would like to direct Mike to work out carefully what a pilot project is. So that when we get those other calls from all those other subdivisions that want this done in front of their road we can be very clear that this is an experimental 3-year project and that you will monitor this as far as the costs, the maintenance so that we can use that information to see if we want to apply this other places in the county. I just want everything to be very up front so that we don’t get ourselves into something that we aren’t prepared to handle.

Bulechek: Could Mike come out and look with us and show us what maybe needs to be done before he thinks we even start. If there is any major problems that he foresees. We’ve got some areas where there’s some trees in a ditch there that probably should be taken out or something. I don’t know. I personally want to work with the road department. I’m not interested in ramming something down anybody’s threat. I want to make it work.

Gardner: Yes, we can come out. I can bring Kevin out and take a look at it. He’s going to have a better eye for some of that stuff.

Harney: Then you work with Pat or Andy whoever from the County Attorney’s office to work up some type of a contract.

Thompson: So we have consensus to have it on for next week for us to vote on something. If they’re going to have it done by the 17th, we need to have it done next week.

Lehman: At least report back. We might be a little bit premature on an agreement. I think there’s consensus that we want to look at the possibility of something. I asked if this doesn’t work out, doesn’t progress, they still have the option of going back so they’re no worse off. I want to make sure they’re no worse off, with no dust control. If they find out they can’t get enough people to participate or…

Stutsman: That’s right.

Lehman: I don’t know if we’re ready to put it back on or can we hear a report if it’s… From Mike if he gets a chance to get out there before then, if not… I don’t think we’re going to be ready for a formal agreement.

Thompson: We won’t have an agreement ready by next week.

Stutsman: It sounds like…

Lehman: But the May 17th deadline is not going to be an issue, trying to get something done.

Stutsman: Yes.

Thompson: So Mike you’ll have something ready for us next week to talk about.

Lehman: Possibly.

Gardner: What, yes. Do you want me to meet with the County Attorney’s office to try to come up with something?

Thompson: Well next week is the 16th, if they’re going to…

Lehman: What we’re saying is…

Stutsman: He said there was some flexibility in that date so I don’t think there’s that much of a concern.

Lehman: Mike may have a project for it, just something brief. He may even send it to us so we can have a short discussion. Saying he’s been out and looked at it. There are problems he’s concerned with, maybe he’s pointed out some things to them that they don’t feel like they can financially handle. He may not have a report in a weeks time. He may not get a chance to really look it out. We’ll kind of wait to hear.

Thompson: OK.

Harney: Basically what he’s saying is we don’t want to go into the contract your own parts until we’re sure you want to go ahead with this. Meet with Mike out there and then see if you’re neighbors want to get along.

Bulechek: I think we need a time line no matter who do we contract here and get back to somebody then…

Harney: You’ll get to Mike and then Mike will get back to us.

Bulechek: So Mike is our contact then to give you feedback. We’ll do what we have to do on our end.

Christ: Are we ready to go ahead and ask on our part. I mean is there enough interest there that we can go ahead now and say I think it’s possible if we can come up with the money. I guess that’s starting.

Thompson: OK. Is that what you need.

Bulechek: Yes, that’s what we’d like to do.

Dan Kramer: I’m Dan Kramer. For the consensus of Supervisors it would be OK if we would approach our group of individuals as far as the idea to move forward on this as far as to using this alternative product?

Thompson: I’m hearing consensus.

Lehman: Straw poll on our part and you want to do a straw poll on your neighbors to find out how interested and what dollar level… I know you have some estimates, but that may change a little bit if Mike says I think this corner here needs 6 or 8 inches of this material and you were only estimating a little lesser in certain spots. I don’t see it changing a lot, but there may be. I don’t want any surprises. I just want to make sure we’ve got out bases covered.

Kramer: I just want to say real quickly too. This subdivision, this area is pretty decent area to actually be looking at as a pilot program because of the fact that there is validity in future proposed residential development on this. For what’s there, it’s going to be there and because this is in a 5-acre area you’re not going to see any more additional subdivisions. It’s on a half-mile stretch, it’s highly dense and it will be kind of interesting. I think it’s kind of exciting to see just exactly what it will or won’t do after 3 or 4-years.

Lehman: Do we need a representative from the Health Department to look at that thing out there.

Thompson: Yes. OK. So that gives you the guidance that you need?

Bulechek: Thank you very much.

Christ: Thank you.

Thompson: Then we move on to business from the County Attorney.

White: No reports or inquiries.

Grimm: Is it still open reports?

Thompson: No we’re not to public comment. Would it be OK with the other members of the Board if we dispense with the Board reports tonight?

Stutsman: I think there’d be mutiny if anybody said no.

Thompson: OK, Robert that brings us to inquiries and reports from the public. It’s after 10:00 so I am going to limit you to 3 minutes. Mike’s keeping track. Got your watch Mike?

Grimm: I hope I can reappeal because I’ve waited a long time.

Stutsman: Yes you picked a meeting that really has run long.

Grimm: Thank you all. My name is Mr. Robert Grimm. Carol can you review the very first article on the agenda tonight for the late viewers, we was on our schedule. Can you repeat to our late viewers what was on the agenda tonight. It was regarding the Courthouse.

Thompson: The Courthouse steps?

Grimm: Yes, why? And also what else was there? Security right? The issue was brought…

Thompson: Security wasn’t on our agenda, it was just brought up by the public for comment.

Grimm: OK, well anyhow. Why is it being brought up? Let’s get a little bit more of a toll on this. The nation went through a very rough crisis. One thing was brought out that people are irate sometimes at the Courthouse. They were asking for money, which is fine and dandy. Why are they asking? Denials, approvals, no denial, denial, denial. People aren’t getting the proper oath given rights by the Attorney to protect our interest, by our Sheriff to protect our interest. That’s what the pipe bombings were about. People being denied their rights. That’s where our very first thing on our agenda, the security in your Courthouse. People are worried about their safety in there. The reason why is people are being denied their rights. My last conversation with Mr. Patrick White ended and he was going to look into my property. Is this correct?

White: Well I had a meeting with you and your attorney. We covered several different concerns of yours.

Grimm: We covered a lot. I don’t think it’s appropriate to bring it out here, but the last thing you said to me was you were going to see about getting my property deeds. The reason why I want my deeds is I want to move out as County if I want to. I don’t adhere to tattoo parlors using Federal regulated colorants. I don’t adhere to a County Attorney that don’t know what is the cause of a fire that hurt somebody. The cause of the fire was illegal use of alcohol. That’s a Federal use. You people approve Boards, approve permits for alcohol. Mr. Pat White’s up for election this year. He wants to keep his name in front of the paper. The City didn’t think it was quite proper just to have an appeal process, denial and appeal. They went to the State level. But actually that’s not where that problem with Etc. belongs. It belongs in the Federal Court system. My problem does too. I had it started there. Wrongfully or rightfully through summons or maybe the judges disregard or respect for me. I want to say it was disrespect. They’re appointed for life you know and they’re political. That comes back to me. I’ve been used, I feel and know, as a political pawn or rook or whatever you want to come up with. Pat, is our County Attorney good. We had a discussion about firearms, property deeds like I’m trying to get back in my name. It takes ex-wife’s signature. You can’t do it by power of attorney, it takes her signature. Divorce, illegal, mentioned a little bit about that. But anyhow, the deeds are lost. I personally handed them to Eva Avenson in her office to be given to Randy Larson. He lost them, he lost them. Then Pat White later on says you know it’s not a crime to loose something in the Attorney’s office. Now going back to denial. That letter had an affidavit from this man, Terrence Neuzil’s father, notarized by their secretary and it’s a recording office, next door affidavit. That I actually handed the original property deeds, joint-tenancy warranty deed, contract and offer to buy, all originals. If it is not a crime, I don’t want to put it that way, but it is a crime to lose something in the Attorney’s office. It is a crime almost to lose something in your office too. You log it in and it’s filed. Our situation is this with you and me and White, is people are lying to Mr. White, he don’t know who to believe. He’s in a medical profession. It’s been a long time since I had surgery. I maintain that I woke up during surgery due to an illegal operation, probably because it was being done and when you do something illegal, things don’t go right. I’ve been trying to get it established. The man has probably known about it for 10 years. I’m going back to firearms. Taken away from me, no receipt. It’s a well known fact that sometimes shooting a shotgun or rifle you can get your hearing back. It’s a fact with me that shooting a shotgun you can get your vision back. That’s what this document shows right in here. I’m not going to put on you yet, but I have other avenues and I probably won’t come with just… What will happen is in the voting booth is where this probably will be decided because it’s just going to be like Etc., denied and in the paper. It gets to be a dead-cat issue. People don’t want to hear it no more. But I have other avenues. The first one would be to go… 5 signatures of this County voters, carried up to the Courthouse, have it filed and to a judge and have a hearing. That’s one. The next thing is what’s taped to the back. My copies probably inside here, they go to the Governor’s office, County Attorney’s association. I’m sorry about it Pat, but this is the way it goes. If you’re caught in between them, in the vice and you won’t help the lower guy. That’s the problem. It could probably cost you your job. We talked about where I’ll be buried. Probably next to some of your ancestors. When you don’t take care of all your constituents and don’t look into what’s happened. I’m under great pain tonight, I’m in loose attire. That’s the reason why, give me a chance to breathe. But I’m not the only person in this world, in this County with the hospital the biggest business. There’s a lot of us people being neglected. Your psychiatrist had the mailbox bomber silhouette as an older man, you know, grudged because of neglect. It turned out to be a youngster. You have your man up there being mad at the Courthouse because his kids being taken away. I’m not going to get into the sad aspects, but I’m going to ask you to kindly study it at your leisure, what to do. In the meantime, I want the ex-wife brought to Iowa and to discuss… And transfer the property back to my name. It don’t have to be done tomorrow. By Father’s Day or whatever. That it keeps on dragging it out, maybe I will die like they have me programmed. That’s what everybody seems to be hoping for. In conclusion it’s been a pretty nice night. I had a couple aspects I brought up facts that setting a fire, an alcohol fire is a bad thing just to get aired in the papers. It should be attended to right now. I mean bang, put the nail on it. You got tattoo parlors, I don’t like them. This involved kids, they see somebody else and think boy I’ve got to have one too. Then later on the doctor has got to take them off because it’s hurting them or something.

Thompson: Robert thank you for being here and your comments. We appreciate that.

Grimm: I hear that and I thank you too. Like my first request was asked I’d like to have my property put in my name and the Mrs., ex-Mrs. has to be brought here to this town. You can probably do this by a court order through the State Attorney General’s office, Mr. Tom Miller and have the family escorted. You can decide this with everything else and see what… The third legally way is like I said going back to the Federal Penitentiary system and I will involve all you with that, but you don’t have to be. You’ve got enough money to buy the steps.

Thompson: Thank you. I think that brings us to time for adjournment.

Neuzil: We’ve got one more gentleman.

Thompson: Did you want to make a public comment?

Robert Marshek: Robert Marshek’s my name. I just thought maybe I’d kill 2 ducks with one stone. I think I sent you a letter of what I’ve got to look at that’s right next to me. I’ve just talked to Mr. Neuzil there and he said it’s kind of hard to do unless it’s health related, something health related to get that cleaned up. Really it don’t have to be because when Mr. Sawyer said he would… When he passed the Zoning Board, he said there would be no cars because I called… I came to every meeting here and I knew what it was going to look like. He might have kind of seen what it kind of looked like too. He said that any junk cars or any cars without an up to date permit and license, he wouldn’t allow them on that place. I think I counted 11 or 12 cars setting there in the yard with no wheels on them. I don’t think they have license plates neither. You know that this would be, you know the neighbors always say, well how can you stand having to look at that. I said well, why the hell weren’t you up here at these meetings with me and giving me a little support. I just thought well I was here you know, it looks like it’s going to be an ongoing thing because it’s been in the family since the old man was the same way. Either you know, I’d like to either have it kind of keep cleaned up a little bit or have a 10 foot fence put around it or something you know. If it were some of the junk dealers here in Iowa City, that’s what they’d have to do. They’re like Sexton’s car thing there beside me. He had to put up a fence so you couldn’t see his cars. I hope you come down and get a, come down the Sand Road and get a full view of what I’ve got to look at.

Stutsman: Mr. Marshek when I went out on zonings to look at the farmstead split, R.J. and I looked at that and my understanding is that they were going to check into this, but I’ll follow up on that tomorrow. We both said that this can’t be. So…

Marshek: Well yes, there’s trucks setting there full of cold water heaters. I mean I got groundhogs running to who laid the rail from there. I could see this coming, because I was here at every meeting. I just had to buck the crowd myself. I know you can’t deny a Zoning Permit to see what you might see down in the future. You can’t predict what might happen, but I knew what would happen.

Thompson: But we do have some procedures that we follow in cases like this and think what’s Sally’s saying is that we’ll get right on that.

Harney: I went down and looked at it as well. Planning and Zoning did say they were going to do some follow up work on that.

Thompson: Keep us informed on what the results are.

Marshek: It’s something that isn’t getting any better you know. I just thought while I’m here I would kill 2 ducks with one stone.

Thompson: Thank you.

Marshek: I hope something can be done anyway. It don’t have to be right away. I’ve looked at it for this long. But you know, I kind of like to keep neighbors to. I don’t like them coming over and torching my buildings on account of something I might have turned in. But you know I think you could say you just saw it driving by yourself. It isn’t that hard to drive by and not see it.

Thompson: OK. Thank you. Now we’re adjourned.

Adjourned at 10:25 p.m.

Attest: Tom Slockett, Auditor

By Casie Parkins, Recording Secretary