DISCUSSION: REMODELING THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS OFFICE
Stutsman: Discussion regarding remodeling on the Board of Supervisors office.
Peters: I had distributed to each of you again the various floorplans. Pat can not go any further until he knows what the Board's desire is. So what do you desire?
Duffy: I'm just going to say no, then I'm going stay quiet.
Stutsman: You mean as far as the configurations that were represented.
Peters: Or if you want to look at a different option someone else thought of.
Stutsman: Well, Charlie you say no.
Duffy: I say no, because I'm not for the program. I think it's going to be a very costly program and I'm going to say no.
Jordahl: The program, you mean changing any office configurations. I want to just define just specifically what you're talking about.
Bolkcom: Where do you want to put the new person Charlie?
Duffy: I asked a long time ago, there as room up at the County Attorney's Office, but it fell on dead ears.
Bolkcom: Where was the room at the County Attorney's Office?
Duffy: John left and Pat said he had room at one time, because I asked him.
Bolkcom: I thought we were kind of in a, maybe struggle is too strong of word here, but at the Courthouse, talking to the judges, talking to the Attorney, there is a real space crunch there too I thought.
Duffy: John Bulkley's office I guess it was, but awhile back I thought he said that...
Stutsman: Well I think part of the decision not to do that was because of the majority of the Board felt that should be in the Board of Supervisors Office and not in the County Attorney Offices.
Duffy: That's one of the reasons I want it there Sally. I mean this is somebody else's baby, this is going to cost big bucks.
Stutsman: Well I don't know. We need to define what big bucks are Charlie.
Duffy: Once you start something like this, this is going to be... Plus it isn't right.
Stutsman: Any other comments from Board members?
Jordahl: Well isn't it the case that part of the function of human resources was part of John Bulkley's position, so that we had I think half of John Bulkley's time and the budget line was the same function as we're talking about here. So we're talking abut expanding from a half-time to a full-time human resource person. Is that the correct memory? I think that John Bulkley is going to be replaced in any case though, so there is a comparable half time expansion to an Assistant County Attorney.
Stutsman: I think we need to keep it simple, like Carol says, and decide what we want to do with remodeling of this office for space for the Human Resource person. I guess the proposal that's on the table is going into the County Recorder's current office and dividing that office in half and then having the County Recorder move her office to the southeast corner of that Recorder's Office. Is that correct Carol?
Peters: That was my understanding, yes.
Duffy: What's it going to cost?
Stutsman: I don't know, do we have a cost estimate on that?
Duffy: You're surely not going to say yes or no before you know how much its going to cost?
Peters: It was my understanding that the various options that had been presented, this would be the least expensive. If you do take that office and you split it in 2 that's going to facilitate 2 small offices.
Lacina: By least expensive it implies that we have some numbers, and I know there is a bid out there for $28,000 for the Recorder to do some configuration, is that not correct?
Stutsman: I think that is for the document management. I don't know; we'd have to ask the Recorder to come in and explain what that is. I thought that was...
Bolkcom: Is the Recorder in today, maybe we should see if Deb is available.
Lacina: So there are no numbers. We have no idea what this is going to cost us at all?
Bolkcom: I remember a number from Pat Langenberg between 4 and $5,000 to basically cut a hole in the wall and put a door in, throw up some sheet rock and another door and have 2 small offices in the current Recorder's office.
Lacina: That's just a portion, because then as (inaudible) said you have to move your Recorder into another location.
Bolkcom: I don't know that we've seen a figure on that.
Stutsman: Yes, and maybe that's what we need. If we say that's the option we want is to look at going through putting a door in for 2 small offices in the old Recorder's office area then we need to get Pat that direction and come back with a cost for that.
Bolkcom: We've got these other designs here.
Stutsman: Right.
Bolkcom: This is the lowest cost option, cutting a hole in the wall and making 2 small offices. It doesn't solve most of our space problems up in this office.
Duffy: Which way are you going to walk in.
Bolkcom: Pardon me.
Duffy: Which way will the two people walk in.
Jordahl: Same door we do?
Duffy: Same door as our people. Boy.
Bolkcom: They'll be our people Charlie.
Jordahl: Yes, the Human Resource...
Duffy: (Inaudible).
Jordahl: Really it's a question of providing an office for the Human Resources Director. Am I using the right job title Human Resources Director?
Duffy: Have you looked around any place else in this building?
Jordahl: There is the old mailroom downstairs by Pat Langenberg office he pointed to.
Peters: Not to muddy the waters, but you might want to ask Pat to get a cost on relocating the 5 Supervisors and providing a conference room downstairs in the entry break. You could free up up here for additional offices. Each of you would have your own private offices and it would give you a large amount...
Stutsman: Morning Deb. We're talking about remodeling the Board of Supervisors office and going into the Recorder's Office. So we had a question brought up about the $28,000 remodeling that's being done over there. Is that for space or what is that?
Jordahl: Is that computer desks or your office or what does that figure represent?
Lacina: Is it walls too?
County Recorder Deborah Conger: No.
Lacina: OK, so this is just...
Conger: It's electrical. As you know they only have cables coming down from the ceiling, so this will be wiring and so the phones, will have phones at all of the desks, which we don't now, furniture to put the computers on.
Lacina: OK, so the 28,000 will not include setting you up with an office.
Conger: No.
Stutsman: It's basically to update your office to take care of vital statistics, and the computers.
Conger: There is no furniture for me at all. It's all out on the floor and it's a recycled furniture, what we're looking at anyway. None of this has been ordered or anything yet. It's a recycled furniture.
Stutsman: And those moneys are in your budget right?
Conger: $75,000 was budgeted for this, we're bringing it all up-to-date...
Lacina: This is the document imaging, or the dollar fee per document for modernization. But it's not remodeling dollars, it's modelization dollars.
Conger: Yes, and in talking with other Recorder's, this money has been used to knock out walls and do all kinds of things for vital statistics, so it's not just buying computers.
Lacina: One concern I had and the way the Code was set up, there was some very specific references how the dollars could be used.
Conger: Well it's not really specific. It's a document management fund to be used for automation. I feel like, and I guess other people do too that when you bring a computer into an office with a 1940's desk, we have desks that are like this wide so there is hardly room for the hard drive and the monitor to sit there. it's just not designed for 1997 technology. So in order to really make the office workable with a plan so that workflow can operate easily, we really need to have the type of furniture and even the chairs. The chairs I think have been handed down from 1940. I wouldn't' want to sit in those chairs all day. The staff over there when they start working with the computers they're going to spend a lot more time in the chairs rather than walking around the 12 different work... Right now our work flow flows in a 12 step process around the office. At that point it would be basically desk oriented and they will be able to do anything that needs to be done at their desk, rather than you go to this desk for this job, that desk for that job. It's jut the way it's at now.
Lacina: We; were discussing walls more than...
Conger: Yes, the walls. The way I see the wall part of it is I'm willing to give up the space in the Recorder's Office for this, but I feel like if I do that then you should provide me with an equal space (inaudible).
Lacina: In the configuration of this, is there a need for a location where confidential records could be kept? I don't know the answer to that.
Conger: Yes.
Lacina: OK, so that, in the remodeling, it probably needs to be considered.
Conger: No, I have a locked office, and I have locked files in my office.
Lacina: OK, so you can secure the money as well as documents.
Conger: There's money and confidential files in there. I feel too as a department head with personnel problems and whatever that we need, I want something more than just cubicle walls.
Jordahl: Sure.
Conger: I feel like some of the situations I've had to deal with already, I do not want... There's a lot of public in our office, I do not want somebody sitting on the other side of the cubicle.
Jordahl: She does raise a really good point there. We're looking at the low cost of taking her space for our functions, but that... And then the Recorder's Office, sort of ideally picking up the slack for the Recorder's space, but it seems like part of the low cost of our taking her space is reflected in the high cost of her having to replace that space for a private office. So there's a...We probably ought to look at this at the point that she raises, of whether we're going to pay for a new Recorder's office out of a Supervisor's budget.
Stutsman: Well one thing that we've got to keep in mind is that we're scheduled to have this person start by the end of November, first of December. Applications for the HR person are due the end of October. We need to make a decision and move on it.
Conger: We do, we really need to decide what you're going to do and like I said, I'm willing to give up that space, but I feel like an equal space should be provided if you're going to take that. It's a big concession frankly and I don't know of any department heads that would probably be willing to do that. So...
Jordahl: We should take a poll.
Duffy: Well I think it's encroachment by the Board of Supervisors.
Conger: Well...
Duffy: I do...
Conger: On the other hand I would really like to see a Human Resources position in here. I think we really need that with the situation I'm dealing with right now.
Duffy: Well I don't think it has to be in your office, though.
Conger: It probably doesn't have to be, but I can see with the way that the office is laid out that it does make sense.
Duffy: I don't think so.
Bolkcom: Well what about...So we have a 4 to 5 thousand dollar cheap estimate to take Deborah's office and turn it into two small offices, approximately. Then we don't know if we're going to, there's a case to be made for us spending money to build another office, soundproof office. Is that 10 grand, is that 5 more thousand, is that.
Peters: Well I was going to say, if they come to an agreement of what design you like the best... Is Pat here?
Bolkcom: I guess my point is, if we're going to spend 20 grand or 30 grand to piece meal this, maybe we should be looking at a bigger solution.
Lacina: See one of the discussions Deb, was to go downstairs underneath this facility, where you walk out, to put a rounded wall and set 5 Supervisors' offices and a conference room down there.
Conger: Uh-huh.
Lacina: Obviously we've got the roof and heating facility and floor. But the question would be the total cost of that. What our cost per foot would be is what we're trying to figure out.
Conger: Certainly more than what... This plan is not going to give you any space.
Bolkcom: Right.
Lacina: Well if they did that, they'd have 2 tiny offices.
Bolkcom: Right.
Stutsman: In the long run, is that really what we'd want or will we be back in here 2 years from now saying well, that didn't work.
Peters: I think everybody will probably be back in here 2 years from now.
Conger: With this plan?
Duffy: No, with going into your office.
Bolkcom: It will be expensive to build downstairs though, in terms of getting heat down there and...
Lacina: Actually, the runs are already there.
Stutsman: Oh, really?
Lacina: Langenberg says all we would need to do is go through that wall and put drops. The electrical we'd have to extend, the floor is there, the ceiling would be there. It just depends on the configuration that we would go in with. Dwight Dobberstein he's visited with, frankly said he was surprised we hadn't come back to him in the past for that space because you're talking one wall, you're not talking the other 3 walls really, in fact you could get rid of the envelope door system that we've got.
Bolkcom: So how would it work to have us downstairs and our support staff down here.
Lacina: You'd probably have a kiosk or receptionist right there to help us in terms of our office space and the conference room. You'd probably have your HR, budget function of some sort, the I don't know if you're going to have your insurance plan reviewed by your HR person or if that would be separate.
Stutsman: Someday. I don't know.
Lacina: But the mechanics or the functions of the office would probably remain up here.
Stutsman: Well we'd get a lot of exercise.
Jordahl: A thought that Pat Langenberg talked about here was punching out this wall and reconfiguring the public hearing space here to go all the way through to the windows over there and then doing something with the City Assessor's Office over there. That hadn't been mentioned in any kind of form before. But to run this room, to run the hearings this way as it was originally envisioned with it's curve space here, rather than this way which is sort of people down there don't... They get to be quite far away. If we had a broader space here that was somewhat deeper, so that we could put the Supervisors back there, we might realize some room along with what is now our conference room and possibly something, some portion of the City Assessor's Office there. We might do Supervisor's offices up here, support staff over here, and a reconfigured public hearing space here. So that it conceivably would not be necessary to take those offices. So this is a model that hasn't been studied.
Stutsman: Well maybe...
Lacina: That a load bearing wall, Carol? You helped design this building is that...
Jordahl: Pat suggested it.
Peters: I don't really know. This is...
Stutsman: Could another....
Peters: This is one of the schematics that was on the information that we handed out.
Duffy: I suggest having the City Assessor in here if we're talking about busting into his...
Jordahl: I just...I'm not saying that we would have to do that, even without doing that, there is some space along that northern wall of our...What is now our conference room, behind that wall there.
Stutsman: Another option would be to use that space downstairs for the Board Room and configure that whole front entrance.
Lacina: Oh, for public hearings?
Stutsman: Right, just have...
Jordahl: Right and be able to go all the way back to the sculpture.
Lacina: Well your acoustics, that would be a...
Bolkcom: There's no way.
Stutsman: Well I don't know if we can say there's no way. It think sometimes you have to be way out to..
Bolkcom: You mean the space downstairs, you mean the lobby as a public meeting space?
Stutsman: No, I'm saying instead of talking about going out front and making individual offices, make a large conference room down there and then use this space up here for offices.
Lacina: Could we take a 3 minute break and walk down there and just look at that?
Bolkcom: Yes.
Jordahl: Would it have to be a break, you can carry that recorder can't you?
Stutsman: Yes, why don't...
Lacina: Just to get an idea of the dimensions.
Stutsman: Don't anybody say a word.
At 11:18 a.m. the Board, with Duffy remaining behind, walked downstairs and outside to the front of the building. They discussed possible structural changes and remodeling that might be possible to create more space for the Board using the space at the front of the building. At 11:29 a.m. the Board came back inside and joined Duffy in the Board Room.
Stutsman: It's cold out there, Charlie.
Lacina: We decided it's cold out.
Duffy: Really. Now that's the 3rd one we're going to remodel...
Stutsman: Oh...
Bolkcom: Well too bad we can only have 4 offices, we only have... The 5th Supervisor, I don't know what we're going to...
Jordahl: That was the consequence Charlie, we could only find 4 offices.
Lacina: The roof...Have the loft.
Stutsman: OK, Pat, what were you, what do you think we should do?
Langenberg: Well I wish I knew what you were... I really don't know what you're doing as far as extra people or whatever, but the option that we were talking downstairs is that if the doorways were left as is, a vestibule, you would come in the building and there would be 2 offices on each side, there would be a total of 4 offices. The doorways would be where your glass entrance is now. The other option would be if we went with 6 offices downstairs, we would move your vestibule and entryway out to the front, and then as you walk through the vestibule, 3 offices on each side would be opening from....
Stutsman: So who would be in 6 offices?
Langenberg: Well we had 5 Supervisors and a conference, you could have... I guess it's probably your call.
Stutsman: 5 Supervisors, I guess I'm thinking about the staff you know. Do the Supervisors want to be separated from the support staff.
Langenberg: Sure, well that would be...
Stutsman: And that's what I was...
Lacina: Well we really wouldn't if we had Carol down there with us. It's like Linn, they're not close to the budget people so much as...
Stutsman: Well and I think of the receptionist Joe, how much of a...
Bolkcom: Try to track us down is not an easy thing.
Langenberg: This might make you more accessible downstairs.
Stutsman: With the 6 offices?
Langenberg: Yes, if that's what you want also. If you want that.
Conger: You mean on each side and the doors to be opposite on each side.
Langenberg: Right 3 on each side.
Conger: Sally's idea of having a meeting room down there and then up here...
Stutsman: See I just threw out having the Board Room, meeting room downstairs.
Bolkcom: Who knows.
Stutsman: That would mean moving the door and everything and just having all the offices up here...To try to keep things together rather than a few offices up here and a few offices down there and what not. I was just throwing, brainstorming, that's what that was called...
Langenberg: Sure, no, no, no, no, that's fine.
Stutsman: I was just throwing that out as...
Langenberg: Yes, sure.
Peters: Steve asked if that was a load bearing wall, it isn't is it?
Langenberg: No.
Lacina: Oh, so that can come out, so that would free up all this.
Bolkcom: So is there a way to do that?
Langenberg: As far as offices up here?
Jordahl: Well a couple different options. One, offices up here is one thing with the conference room downstairs. My thought is offices downstairs, conference room up here, but as you and I were discussing the other day, punch that wall out and rearrange the room to go this way.
Bolkcom: If we do that can we get offices up here? How far would we go out?
Lacina: All the way to the windows.
Bolkcom: Right, but that's like 5 feet or 6 feet on the other side. There's not 8 feet...
Jordahl: It's 8 or 10 I think.
Bolkcom: This room would get a lot smaller though, I think if we do that.
Lacina: I think you're right.
Langenberg: I think I've explained, Jonathan, at one time we had the room set up like this, and the problem was this table was too close to the Board, plus you only had 2 rows here. The Supervisors didn't like sitting like this and the public was back this way. This has been 10 years ago now. Everybody thinks different so...
Jordahl: What we had talked about was the possibility of removing this wall and having the windows open and having the room expanded out that way. Now these look like their load bearing pilasters here.
Langenberg: Yes, they are.
Jordahl: It would be possible to...
Langenberg: There was one other option we had and I don't know if everybody liked it. We were going to move this wall out probably 6 foot and then each one of your offices were going to be up here 1 2 3 4 5, and then also Carol's which would be right beside each other.
Lacina: (Inaudible).
Langenberg: But you're walking into the...
Stutsman: Into the Board Room.
Langenberg: And nobody liked that.
Peters: But if we took Sally's idea and put a Board Room downstairs.
Langenberg: Put the Board Room downstairs.
Jordahl: Now where would that go?
Peters: The large conference room downstairs. That would allow for putting in a hallway there to access the 5 supervisors, plus have room left over for additional staff.
Stutsman: Well the other thing about downstairs is accessibility to the public.
Peters: That's what I was...
Stutsman: You walk right in the door and there's where the Board Room is rather than people having to come upstairs or...
Duffy: We have an elevator.
Bolkcom: It has to be a big enough room though.
Jordahl: Where would that be, the Board Room exactly. Because we've got the hallway in the middle. That's what I'm trying to envision.
Stutsman: Well and see I'm envisioning it would be a total reconfiguration of that front of the office, or the building and maybe it wouldn't work...But I think if we could be creative and maybe think of some options to configure that front part of the building. It would not have the entrance as it is now.
Langenberg: If you were to do, say one side down there. If you want everything, move everything out, your area down there would be 20 by 30 basically what this room is to the partition. But I know there's times that you need more room than that.
Lacina: That's just one half....
Langenberg: One half, right and you'd be a little smaller than that, because you've got your...
Peters: But if you needed more room than that, you could have the back of it open up into the lobby area.
Langenberg: Right, oh yes.
Lacina: Set up chairs, have a dividing, have a thing like that you could just collapse and...
Langenberg: But the problem with that is you've got 2 offices, the Auditor and the Treasurer on each side...
Bolkcom: We need a room where we can close the door. I mean I could see us meeting on a Thursday morning at 9:00 and we've got an overflow crowd on some item and people are standing in back where they're getting their licenses.
Langenberg: That's what it is.
Peters: I meant for a door that would open up into the lobby area. That's what I...Like you see in ballrooms.
Bolkcom: I don't go to ballrooms that often. I'm not getting that. Are you saying like a sliding door that you just open and it would be open to the bigger part of the vestibule? Well I think that would be a possibility...That might be a noise problem for us.
Langenberg: The only other way is to change your entrance so you're off to one side.
Bolkcom: Right.
Stutsman: I guess that's what I was thinking. Just putting it off to one side and I don't know how that would be aesthetically with the front of the building.
Langenberg: Right. Now you're talking 30 by 40.
Stutsman: This is what, 30 by 20?
Langenberg: This is 20 by 30.
Jordahl: We could have one thing that would accomplish is if you had a separate entrance on either side of the conference, or the Board Room downstairs. One for Auditor, Recorder, and one for the Treasurer, Zoning, Assessor, so forth, but it would detract from the sort of unitary nature of the government for all the people kind of one door for everybody, the message the building would be sending.
Lacina: I still think the offices downstairs would utilize this for...
Jordahl: I drew some pictures of that here, Steve. Is this accurate Pat, if we have the vestibule coming in here and you'd go inside and then you had a hallway so there's 1, 2 offices here, would these be too narrow? How wide does the hallway have to be?
Langenberg: Well it depends on exactly what you're looking at in the Auditor's Office, there would be 10 by 20.
Jordahl: But that's 20 without a hallway.
Langenberg: Right.
Jordahl: So they'd have to enter the doors here and there would be no way to get to the Supervisors offices here except go in sideways, the vestibule.
Langenberg: OK, this is 6 offices.
Jordahl: Right, and I'm talking about 8 offices.
Langenberg: Oh, 8 offices OK.
Jordahl: Yes. Orienting them toward the front here, see the curvature of the front of the building having 2 offices on each side here and HR and so forth, but there's not really room, these offices would be too narrow wouldn't they? How wide is a hallway?
Langenberg: Well you'd need 3, 4 feet.
Jordahl: For accessibility and so forth. Yes, what's ADA for a hallway?
Langenberg: I couldn't tell you without looking.
Bolkcom: You'd have to be able to turn around in a wheelchair.
Langenberg: (Inaudible) foot probably.
Jordahl: So that's not going to work. 4, huh?
Stutsman: Well do we have a consensus about how we want to proceed? Because I think we need to make up our minds so we can get some costs back and start going from there. Do we want to look at the 6 offices downstairs and..
Langenberg: I did get an estimate... I tell you what I did get on the 4, by putting the 4 offices down there, we looked at 110.... Hold on here a second. $110,000. I want to make sure I'm right here.
Jordahl: OK.
Lacina: So over 5 years, we're going to be looking at about 22 thousand per year.
Langenberg: Right, that's $110,000. For the other option with the 5 supervisors in the conference room we were looking at 260.
Lacina: 260.
Langenberg: And to remodel the 2nd floor which we had talked about the offices here and moving this out we were talking $220,000.
Jordahl: OK, sticking the wall out into the hallway.
Langenberg: Right, moving this out.
Jordahl: 260 you said?
Langenberg: 110 for the 4 Supervisors, 260 for the 5 Supervisors/conference, and then 220,000 if we were to do the 2nd floor up here.
Jordahl: I guess my one question...
Stutsman: And that's not counting what we'd have to do...
Jordahl: One question about the 110 thousand model is where's the 5th Supervisor? Just curiosity.
Langenberg: Oh, I agree. I always thought that.
Stutsman: We all get real paranoid, don't we? Who is number 5?
Jordahl: Raise the question?
Langenberg: Unless the Chairperson would be up here. We had talked about maybe back where Charlie's at right now, put a doorway in there and...
Stutsman: All of a sudden, Charlie that's...
Jordahl: You'd be permanent Chair, Charlie.
Duffy: Hey I know a nice place...
Stutsman: Well then we're talking about 2 more offices up here for...
Jordahl: Where's that nice place for the Chair, Charier?
Duffy: Pat's office.
Langenberg: That could possibly, this back half could possibly be your conference room. You know, just...
Duffy: Pat, could the Chair have your office?
Langenberg: That's fine, that's fine.
Stutsman: Well do we want to pursue the...
Jordahl: They've got a lot of space...
Duffy: I never thought you'd say that...
Langenberg: No. That's...
Stutsman: What was the 220 option, Pat?
Langenberg: The 220 option was the...
Stutsman: Moving this wall out?
Langenberg: Yes.
Stutsman: 2nd floor moving... Well that's out for me.
Peters: Did you happen to get any guesstimate on just the very first option of redoing the Recorder's office into 2 rooms and adding another one on over there.
Langenberg: We were talking $18,000, but I haven't looked into the Recorder's Office, because they've kind of changed plans. We're talking 18 if you do 2 rooms.
Bolkcom: 18, really.
Lacina: (Inaudible)...
Langenberg: Well what we've got is the heat and electric and that...
Bolkcom: I thought it was like 5 or something.
Langenberg: No, no. That was just putting one doorway in and really leaving it as is.
Bolkcom: I see.
Langenberg: That was really at one time you had looked at a conference room.
Bolkcom: OK.
Stutsman: You know that 18...From what I hear you saying, that's not going to...
Lacina: That's not going to give us much because the HR person if they need any support staff, if any of them, anybody we put in those offices needs support staff, phone...
Peters: Well even if they need...
Bolkcom: Well we're not moving Jo, right? Maybe it makes sense to continue to talk about going through the Recorder's office and maybe we just want one office there.
Langenberg: Could you make one office with a... I don't know how much privacy this person needs with...
Stutsman: Oh, they're going to need a lot of privacy.
Langenberg: OK, there went that idea. I was going to say if you put a partition for the... Where we could just put one doorway in.
Bolkcom: Right.
Jordahl: How big is that one, if we cut it into 2? Maybe we need to take another field trip. What does half of Deb's office look like?
Langenberg: They're 10 by 10 is what they are.
Bolkcom: What size is yours Carol?
Peters: Small, smaller.
Lacina: That one's smaller?
Langenberg: Yes.
Peters: They would be the same... Do you remember what the little offices were like in the Courthouse Annex?
Lacina: Yes.
Peters: That's how big they were. I used to have one of those offices and all you had was room for a desk this size, a chair, one filing cabinet, and one chair on the other side.
Lacina: I guess I didn't even realize a filing cabinet would go in there. They were tiny.
Peters: I mean and that just gave you a little...
Langenberg: Plus you've got one room with, I don't know how important that is, without the window. I don't know if...
Lacina: OK, going the opposite direction...Instead of putting the offices against the outside wall downstairs, what happens if we put them in the center? So you come in and your 2 aisles are down to the conference room in the Auditor's Office and the door into Cletus's on the other side, and you configure your offices in the center, would that work?
Langenberg: You'd be changing your front entrance is what you're saying right?
Lacina: No you could.
Langenberg: Where would your entryway be?
Lacina: You'd carry it out to the front wall.
Langenberg: Oh, OK.
Lacina: So your wall was straight down.
Langenberg: OK, go ahead.
Lacina: But then your office configuration would be, or put a door in each side, that might make more sense.
Stutsman: Go to the north side of the building or the south side
Jordahl: Or you know what would be a more radical option is to put the wall down like you're suggesting, but put somebody not the Supervisors in there. Put the Treasurer there for example where people... That's one of the main traffic offices. People coming into the building...
Stutsman: Oh, that's interesting.
Jordahl: People would come in and are like where do I go to get my licenses and it's like well you're here. Just a bit of a radical thought, but maybe there's an office that makes more sense to put there.
Stutsman: Well we've talked about the 5 supervisors plus a conference. Why, I'm not convinced we have the need for another conference room. I'm wondering if 5 Supervisors plus an office for Carol?
Langenberg: Sure, anything. You could have anything down there.
Lacina: (Inaudible) that's the conference room.
Stutsman: Uh-huh.
Jordahl: Uh-huh.
Lacina: Or just walk around, don't put a door, just put a walk around and...
Stutsman: So basically we're talking about 6 offices down there?
Jordahl: Now I'm wondering and Joe raised the question briefly downstairs about security. That's, I guess security isn't the primary concern right now, but to me hubbub is. Right not we have, I have difficulty thinking in a straight line in this office because of the phones ringing and so forth. One of the reasons we're talking about having offices is to cut down on that kind of interruption. Not to say that the public stopping by is an interruption, I mean quite the contrary. I would be perfectly happy to have people stop in, but that we would be likely to have an increase in interruptions in our work day for having offices right in front of the door. I think that's a potential problem. I like the idea of sort of a configuration, but I wonder what practical effect that's going to have on the work day.
Lacina: There would be people that would catch you, because they have business, because you would be accessible and yes, absolutely oh I've got a road problem, got this or that, absolutely.
Stutsman: Or just thought I'd stop by...
Jordahl: Uh-huh, yes, who hadn't intended to stop by but were in the building for something else and say oh....
Conger: But don't you think they do that now, I see them talking to you guys all the time, they come up the stairs and they come in.
Stutsman: They do, but I think if they're going to walk right by your offices every time they walk into the building, I think it's going to increase...
Conger: Your chances, right...
Stutsman: Like you say, Jonathan, I agree. We want to be accessible to the public but at the same time, you need quiet time too, to get your work done. I guess maybe that's why I thought they Board Room downstairs where you keep...
Conger: That makes, I'm going to have to leave here because I have to go to Chicago in about 15 minutes, but I really like the idea of putting the Board Room downstairs, it's very accessible, it's kind of like a general space down there, and having your offices up here where it's more private, a little more private.
Stutsman: There is an argument for that.
Bolkcom: I'd agree with that.
Conger: They maybe doesn't require so much remodeling.
Bolkcom: I agree with that.
Lacina: Thanks, Deb.
Bolkcom: I don't think we can get the space downstairs for a large enough Board Room without totally...
Lacina: What about Jonathan's other idea though, is there an office that would be more appropriate. For example the Assessor's? Can we take over that space?
Duffy: Holy cow, now we've got the Assessor's.
Bolkcom: Give them a call.
Stutsman: No, no.
Lacina: We're just brainstorming.
Stutsman: Just brainstorming. We're not taking away their space, we're just relocating them.
Duffy: But we're talking about it.
Bolkcom: Maybe the City could find space for them.
Stutsman: You know just, I've been curious why does the City not provide space for them? What was the rationale for putting them down here.
Duffy: That's a good question.
Lacina: Probably the confusion and if somebody wasn't sure and came down to see the Assessor. See technically the City doesn't have to have one if they don't want to. We do, we have to have Assessor's function. But...
Bolkcom: That's another thing to put on our next agenda with the City.
Peters: The City Assessor has been housed in the County building since long before I was here.
Langenberg: Probably be a nice office.
Bolkcom: We could have Supervisors offices in there.
Langenberg: No I mean for you guys.
Jordahl: Yes, we could just chop that up into Supervisors offices and leave things the way they are over here.
Stutsman: Let's see who do we want to go...
Jordahl: Your the Chair.
Bolkcom: You'll know within 5 minutes of the end of the meeting.
Lacina: If that's going to cost us 110, is there a building available that would house the Assessors for 110 off-site.
Jordahl: There's a good question. How about the used car place across Benton?
Stutsman: Well you know we shouldn't make fun of that, that's an ideal and I think we would be interested in that property if it did become available for a reasonable price but...
Jordahl: It's very close by.
Peters: Not the used car, but wasn't that insurance office...
Jordahl: Yes, it just got gutted out over there. I don't know what was going on but they're remodeling or moving.
Peters: The insurance place?
Lacina: Years ago down they wanted that house across the street, we should have grabbed that at the time. That would've been...
Jordahl: You know as long as we're looking at knocking out walls that imply somebody else build another office that we ought to be asking these global questions. What is the case in other Counties in terms of City Assessors offices, in cases where people have City Assessors are they housed in the County building? If so under what kind of arrangement.
Duffy: It's cooperation with Iowa City.
Jordahl: Which is a great thing.
Duffy: I think Steve, sometimes they do get mixed up.
Lacina: Under the GIS and mapping projects there is some advantage to have them together. The question is with the cost.
Jordahl: Well now it's going to be electronically linked I suppose. With the GIS.
Lacina: There is going to be a connection between the Auditor, and the Recorder and your Assessors for property transfers and your Zoning, but still I think we've come up with some options that might be more useable than spending 18 to 20,000 dollars in 2 small spaces that wouldn't be useable in about 3 years.
Stutsman: Well and that's what concerns me when you think about space as a long term solution and if we spend 18,000 in a year from now, people are climbing all over themselves and that it hasn't accomplished anything, I don't know if that's a good use of taxpayers dollars just to put a band-aid on a hemorrhage.
Lacina: What would happen if we make a list of some things that we're after, we're after some individual offices for the Supervisors, but wherever those are located they need to be close to support staff and we go to Dwight and we say Dwight show us some configurations downstairs, turn it over to somebody that designed the building and have him give us some options. Well I guess these did come from Dwight didn't they?
Stutsman: Uh-huh.
Langenberg: (Inaudible) want to be away from the personnel. Oh, oh, not enough room.
Jordahl: As an interim solution in terms of the immediate, the urgency of this plan, there is no urgency to having new Supervisors offices, but there is urgency to having a place to put the Human Resources Director. Pat pointed out to me that we have an empty space downstairs, it used to be a mailroom where you could put someone like that temporarily. It doesn't have a window, but it also doesn't require spending much money.
Bolkcom: How big is it?
Stutsman: Where is this mailroom?
Langenberg: Right next to my office. It is I couldn't even tell you. It's 10 by 12, I'm guessing.
Jordahl: It'd not a palace, but I'm saying if we're not deciding on how to spend money...
Langenberg: It's got shelving and a counter space and...
Jordahl: If we're looking... Also I think there's a break room down in the Treasurer's office, we already have a break room upstairs. I mean there is a space there. I think it does have windows doesn't it?
Langenberg: No.
Jordahl: No. Well in any case we've got the... Let's see if we go to the first floor can you point out on the first floor map Pat where that personnel office could be? Is that the second room there where the shelves are kind of the dotted line next to it? On the first floor with the 5 offices...
Langenberg: Oh, with the 5 offices, OK.
Jordahl: With the conference room on the first floor. As you look at the, there's the stairs and then is that your office the next one after the stairs and then the mailroom.
Langenberg: Right, and then the mailroom.
Jordahl: OK so that's what we're talking about. Right.
Langenberg: It shows the counter in there.
Peters: There's the break room downstairs, take the break room up here for everybody, put the break room down there for everybody.
Langenberg: You'd be going through the Treasurer's Office.
Lacina: Oh, Treasurer's door.
Peters: Could you put a door in the hallway there?
Jordahl: Knock a door in the hallway and push Zoning down to the corner and move everybody around and kind of a big old shell game or something, dominoes, and push us over there.
Peters: Well actually if you reconfigured the break room if you look how big that is, that will hold quite a few people. I mean if you took that wall out...
Lacina: You're talking upstairs.
Peters: Upstairs I wonder what kind of a board room that would make.
Jordahl: Yes, for meetings that have been held here.
Stutsman: Oh.
Langenberg: Can I throw something else out, since Carol just threw something at me? She had said something about...
Jordahl: The pop machine is kind of loud.
Peters: No, that would go downstairs in the break room.
Langenberg: What would happen if we moved... You gave me the idea with the Recorder's Office, what would happen if we moved the City Assessor out front and you guys are right next door here in the City Assessors office.
Lacina: (Inaudible) downstairs.
Langenberg: Is there a problem with putting them downstairs and you guys going right next door here so your still in one area.
Jordahl: Problem would be it's a County building and your front man would be the City Assessor.
Langenberg: Not enough room.
Stutsman: Why can't we...
Duffy: We shouldn't be talking about the Assessors unless they're here in this room.
Lacina: Pat is there room to put the City on one side downstairs and the County on the other.
Langenberg: No, not at all.
Lacina: No?
Langenberg: No. Well there would be a smaller area, much smaller.
Bolkcom: The County Assessor looks pretty cramped.
Jordahl: Carol's idea of taking over the break room upstairs and using the Treasurer's break room as the break room for the entire building downstairs makes the most sense of anything that's been said so far today.
Duffy: I'm not going to comment. The Treasurer should be here. Everybody's department instead of Information Services has been talked about too.
Bolkcom: Well let's throw them in here for a minute too.
Jordahl: You want their office too?
Stutsman: We can have a little lean to on the side of the building.
Duffy: I really mean that I don't think we should be talking about all of this encroachment.
Stutsman: We're just throwing out some ideas.
Jordahl: We're talking about space in the building generally and I don't think taking the break room upstairs is any kind of encroachment at all. I mean that's just a break room.
Duffy: That break room's been talked about before. If somebody wanted to make a place to smoke out of it. Remember that Carol?
Langenberg: One time another idea that you talked about was Dan Hudson would be the conference room for you people, he would move over to the City Assessor and the City Assessor would move to County and the County would move to Zoning and Zoning would get moved in that back weight room.
Lacina: But we'd only gain one room.
Jordahl: Right where if we took the whole break room we'd be gaining enough room for 5 Supervisors offices.
Bolkcom: Well how big is the break room downstairs?
Jordahl: It's small.
Langenberg: I'm going to guess... Well no it's half full of files.
Jordahl: That's this area here, this L shaped business.
Langenberg: It is, yes. But the front part of that, the L is full of files.
Lacina: Do they use them there or could they be moved?
Peters: So it's not a break room anymore?
Langenberg: Yes it is, but now that they've gotten rid of all of their license plates but every 5 or 6 years, I don't know when they get license plates, that room was full of license plates where you couldn't walk in there. But now it's empty.
Lacina: But we now have a storage room.
Jordahl: And you don't have to store license plates in there.
Langenberg: No that's true too. But you'd just be moving them to and from.
Jordahl: Every so often you'd have to get in a reasonable, week's supply of them, but you wouldn't have to have a years supply in there.
Langenberg: No, that's when they come, that's how often, that's every 6 years. That's what this last one was.
Stutsman: You're never sure when they're coming either do you?
Langenberg: No.
Stutsman: Exact date and stuff. They just kind of pull up and say here we are.
Langenberg: Here we are, yes.
Jordahl: If we did take the break room upstairs, does it make more sense to have a domino effect and move all of the offices around an put the Supervisor's offices where the City Assessor is now or does it make more sense to put the Supervisors, either the Board Room or separate offices down in that corner. I don't like the idea of the Supervisors offices down in the corner.
Lacina: Well if you just move the City Assessor down into the existing break room right now.
Bolkcom: That would be the way to go.
Jordahl: That's interesting .
Lacina: You just move one office, instead of having to redo everybody.
Bolkcom: Instead of moving everybody.
Langenberg: Your cutting his office in more than half.
Jordahl: That makes sense. That's a better management idea than I was talking about.
Langenberg: Your cutting his office in more than half.
Stutsman: I was going to say...
Lacina: We are cutting his office.
Langenberg: He's cutting his office in more than half.
Lacina: Oh.
Bolkcom: The break room seems pretty big.
Langenberg: If you consider Dan's office also.
Stutsman: See, I don't see how we could not have a separate office for him.
Langenberg: Like I say put him back there behind the machines.
Jordahl: Well you take the machines out and put them downstairs obviously.
Duffy: I'm going to call Dan to come in. If he listens to this tape I don't think he'd appreciate it.
Bolkcom: Dan we're brainstorming right now.
Duffy: No, I don't care if your brainstorming or not. I don't think it's right. I really don't.
Stutsman: Well...
Duffy: I don't want to start a war around here.
Stutsman: No. We are not making any decisions. We are just talking about options.
Duffy: Don't you just think maybe we should find a different place for this new person we're going to hire?
Lacina: There's only one small problem.
Duffy: I can ask Pat White tonight if he still has room up there.
Bolkcom: We could park a trailer out in the parking lot. It would be kind of an annex.
Jordahl: Well you know to take Charlie's point seriously here, there's one of the models of the lowest cost of these is to put 4 offices downstairs sort of extending the brick wall, but not going out to the curvature of the main front of the building and those 4 offices could address the personnel and the I don't know what else. But that is space and if our primary motivating factor of doing anything now is to deal with the HR person, there is room for HR down there and it seems to be pretty appropriate that HR would be by the front door. If people walk in they could find out about County jobs. That's...
Stutsman: Well that is true. It lends more to privacy.
Jordahl: You've have room for a couple, you could have an HR office and a private office. I don't know what else over here. At some point it could be a County information officer or something like that.
Langenberg: Carol Peters.
Stutsman: What?
Langenberg: Carol Peters.
Stutsman: So you're talking about not having any Supervisors office down there.
Jordahl: Yes, we could take that space and not put Supervisors down there. Put some of these new functions.
Bolkcom: Put half of the Supervisors down there and half of them up here.
Stutsman: Who is going to go down there and who is going to be up here.
Bolkcom: We'll draw straws.
Jordahl: Put HR down here.
Lacina: To begin with, in the short term we'll put HR right here, which buys us some time. Then we get serious about reconfiguring this and look at space and see who would best fit.
Jordahl: Well how you get in to the HR office?
Bolkcom: Through Slockett's office.
Lacina: You'd have to go through Auditors office.
Jordahl: That would be kind of awkward. Wouldn't' it be better to put them here.
Lacina: But as Sally was saying, even if you look at construction time we aren't going to get this done by January.
Bolkcom: Call Tom. Call Slockett.
Duffy: Now we're down to (inaudible).
Jordahl: That's why I'm saying this space would serve as a stop gap.
Lacina: Or that. Yes, one or the other.
Jordahl: At least you'd have a door to one or the other.
Bolkcom: You'd have a busy afternoon Charlie, with people to talk to too.
Langenberg: Another thing you can do without costing any money but again the Recorder is not here is going through her main door and going through her office and its not costing anything, but you've got to move her out of her office
Jordahl: What would it cost to change the vestibule?
Langenberg: She's got to go through this doorway right here and go into the doorway.
Stutsman: Not go through this wall here, but keep her office the way (inaudible).
Langenberg: But she's got a key to that office.
Peters: I was going to say would the Recorder be amenable.
Langenberg: I'm saying temporary, very temporary.
Jordahl: But the Recorder still needs a... You still need a Recorder's office.
Lacina: HR for temporary could use a desk in the Recorder's Office and any conferences would have to go into a conference room to begin with. It's going to take a little while for this function to get up and function. From day one it's not going to be up and in a conference room boom.
Bolkcom: Well what about this mail room business?
Langenberg: I was just going to... Do they need to be close to you, This HR, or temporary I'm saying.
Bolkcom: Eventually, but not necessarily
Langenberg: Well we've still got that mailroom, like I say it's an office. If we were to move all of them shelves out it would be bigger.
Jordahl: Can we go look at it?
Langenberg: I got a note on it just this morning, but you know that's...
Stutsman: We're far from making a decision and far from having this accomplished, so maybe that's what we need to do right now is just say the mailroom will just be the HR person's office in the interim until we decide where we're going and just keep this on the agenda until we make a decision what we're going to do with this, because...
Peters: If you do that we need to get a motion on the agenda stating that that's what your going to do, because I think there was a motion earlier designating that area to the County Treasurer.
Stutsman: The mailroom?
Langenberg: Quite a while ago.
Peters: Yes.
Langenberg: Long long time ago.
Bolkcom: Good memory?
Jordahl: But it's not being used.
Langenberg: No, not now.
Peters: But...
Jordahl: Sure I agree with you, but it shouldn't be a giant problem because it's not being used.
Lacina: To keep this on the table, how do we best configure the best configuration or utilization of that space down there?
Stutsman: Which space?
Jordahl: The mailroom?
Langenberg: If you want me to go I'm taking notes here, if you want me to look into making that as a Board Room and put your offices up here. What do you want to do make that as a Board room and a conference room or I guess that's what we're after. Were you looking at that to be a Board room in the front?
Stutsman: I guess I want to look at all the options.
Langenberg: OK, we've looked at 2 of them now.
Jordahl: I have a visualization, this is a radical one. We have a lot of glass on the front of this building that's curved. You could walk in and have a contained glass Board room down there kind of in the middle of that open space with people funneling around to both sides. You come in the front door and you're in, so part of your doorway vestibule is you come in and instead of having a second set of doorways to the general building you have a set of doorways to the Board Room and you have set of doorways to the Auditor and a set of doorways to the...
Lacina: Sort of like Coralville has out there when you walk in they've got that glassed area where they have their meetings. If you're in the hall you can look through the glass and see the... something like that.
Jordahl: Something like that where the Board Room, right now we're thinking how do we go to the edges of all of the square spaces and instead of that we could just go to, it's sort of in the middle of the hallway.
Lacina: Maybe we'd crowd one side but that would be an option to take a look at. Because then you only have to have one hallway if you entered.
Stutsman: I guess I would like to just throw it out and see what Dwight comes up with as, that's what they go to school to learn to do, is to be creative with space and there might be some options that none of us can even visualize or think about.
Langenberg: If you've got that first floor plan right in front of you and just looking at this, Sandy and Cletus are right there, what would happen if you moved them back to their so called break room? Just another idea and that can be your Board Room on your or whatever. But again just an idea.
Stutsman: Well I am open to any idea or just any...
Jordahl: Now what about in the back here, at the back of the Auditors Office we have a huge storage area, voting machines and so forth I suppose.
Langenberg: That is solid with voting machines and supplies. There's a walkspace and that's about it. He's utilized that well. I mean both sides he's got it stacked up. He did a great job.
Lacina: Could that go over into the storage building and have people utilize that space?
Langenberg: Oh, sure I don't doubt.
Jordahl: I mean does he need to have access to that stuff in this building?
Langenberg: You'd have to ask him.
Lacina: Because basically they come in with a van and load voting machines and go out to the site. That's dead storage until the election.
Stutsman: Yes I was going to say, but there again we probably need to have Tom up here too to talk about that. You know we talk abut these space needs. Storage is one thing and I'm sure every body wants their storage right next to them where it's convenient, but I think when we've got limited resources we can't have everything optimum or utopian arrangement. Everybody has to make concessions.
Jordahl: Yes and we've got a storage building, right. Is that full?
Stutsman: We do.
Bolkcom: It's pretty full.
Langenberg: Yes, and there's really just the one room left and it's got books on one side of the Recorder, books on one side of the Treasurer.
Jordahl: Well as I've said before the one room that's kind of a big empty space in this building that could with minimal effect be taken I think is the break room upstairs, and that's a lot of space.
Duffy: That's a nice place for our County employees.
Langenberg: Oh, boy in the wintertime...
Bolkcom: A lot of people eat lunch there.
Jordahl: A lot, 6, 7?
Langenberg: No, in the winter time it's used quite a bit in the winter. It really is in the winter time. Same thing up at the Courthouse.
Jordahl: I'm not saying don't have a break room. Courthouse has got a break room, but it's not as big as ours, and there is one down in the Treasurer's Office now.
Langenberg: Uh-huh.
Bolkcom: So eliminate breaks.
Lacina: Sure made that clear. It gives us options.
Stutsman: So what are we doing now.
Bolkcom: Just keep it on the agenda.
Stutsman: I think maybe put it on the agenda the motion to move the HR person into that space where the mailroom is, and then Pat if you could maybe bring some of those options back up to us.
Langenberg: I tell you what, I'll meet with Dwight on Friday in reference to the Courtroom and the Court space, because I'm going to be meeting with you, if we can put it on the agenda for the 21st, I'm bringing Dwight up here for the Courtrooms... That might be a time that...
Stutsman: Do you think we need to have all of the departments here that this would effect to be a part of this discussion or just to hear what we're talking about, not to put anybody into a panic, but just to say we're looking at all of the options and I don't think we've eliminated any option that doesn't effect somebody in this building.
Duffy: If we're talking about their department, I think we should (inaudible).
Langenberg: Well, you've touched base...
Lacina: They may have some ideas.
Peters: (Inaudible) some idea.
Langenberg: Sure.
Lacina: But I think, can we put it on the agenda, brainstorming about options. I mean this is just trying to come up with suggestions.
Langenberg: 21st and we're also on there for the courtroom space.
Stutsman: OK, we've made one minor decision today, so...
Bolkcom: It didn't cost very much either.
Jordahl: I want to underline though...
Bolkcom: Didn't cost very much either.
Stutsman: Moving right along.
Bolkcom: Before we move right along...
Stutsman: No, no. I just said is there anything else. I didn't mean to say to end the discussion, I just said it only took us an hour and a half to make that decision.
Langenberg: Well it's a big decision. If your going to be doing it long term I think...
Jordahl: What I want to make sure we raise is that I believe we previously made a decision to use the Recorders office for the HR person and now today we've informally said now maybe temporarily going to look at other options and that has implications for her planning as well, so...
Lacina: Actually not, because she didn't plan for walls. Her $28,000 is for desks and wiring...
Jordahl: Well that yes, if we are sort of like, if we're temporarily saying we're not using if and then if we really kind of think that maybe we're going to fall back and use it that her planning is going to be impacted by her wavering on this issue.
Stutsman: Well kind of what I heard discussion today is that I don't think anybody was interested in pursuing that option, is that correct? That's the general feeling I got?
Duffy: Pursuing what option?
Stutsman: Going into the Recorder's office and creating 2 small offices for 18,000 dollars.
Duffy: No I wouldn't be for that.
Jordahl: But we could go in there and create...
Lacina: We could invest some money better and create more space.
Stutsman: Joe.
Bolkcom: I like the mailroom idea.
Stutsman: OK Jonathan.
Jordahl: Well, the mailroom was the idea that I got from Pat and brought forward. I'm not against the mailroom idea I'm just saying in terms of our long-range and in terms of keeping the discussion going...
Stutsman: Well I think we can comfortably tell Deb that we're not going to pursue that option of taking her office and dividing it into 2.
Lacina: For now.
Jordahl: Yes it's that for now that concerns me.
Bolkcom: Well I don't think we can decide anything more than that today. I'm not blocking it out as no, I would never consider doing it, but I don't know that I can say I'm ready to say yes today. I think we need to know more about that other options before we can say that.
Stutsman: So we'll plan to have Dwight come up next Thursday.
Langenberg: I tell you what. I'll definitely give him a call, a pre-warning. Maybe he can come up with something between now and then.
Stutsman: Just to alert department heads that this is brainstorming. They may want to sit in. OK it is 12:10. I'm going to suggest that we postpone our discussion about budgeting process until next week.
Lacina: How about 1:00, come back at 1:00.
Stutsman: Oh, do you want to do that?
Duffy: 1:30.
Bolkcom: We've got an evaluation at 1:30.
Stutsman: We've got Kay's...
Jordahl: Yes, we've got to...
Lacina: This week get started, what do you think?
Stutsman: Maybe could we put it on Thursday for informal.
Peters: Sure.
Jordahl: Now Tom's going to be gone all week. Tom Slockett is ill. I don't know if everybody has heard that, he's going to be out all week he said.
Duffy: Is he? Yes so...
Stutsman: Well why don't we start discussion and really these things all kind of tie into each other, request for proposal for budgeting process, the performance-based budgeting in-house option, which is related to Tom, and doing that and the Auditors office, and then job description of the budget and finance. So if we could take those 3 things and maybe put them on informal for Thursday.
Lacina: Sounds good.
Bolkcom: That's fine with me.
Stutsman: OK and then we can just start discussion about that and see where we go.
Lacina: So we'll be back at 1:30.
Stutsman: OK. We are going to recess for a work session in the conference room.
Jordahl: What about discussion from the public?
Stutsman: Oh, you're right Jonathan. No discussion from the public. OK. So we are going to recess to the back conference room for a work session on job evaluations. So we'll see you at 1:30.