DISCUSSION: BRAINSTORMING SPACE OPTIONS FOR THE COURTHOUSE
Stutsman: OK, moving on to space options for the Courthouse.
Dobberstein: Well I think you have a floor plan and I'll just describe the work we're talking about the South, the lower floor southwest corner, remodeling that space into a courtroom, a fairly small courtroom. It's not being used now for anything that I know of and we would virtually get the space and finish it in the way that the rest of the courtroom has been done. That would include taking out all of the woodwork which is in pretty bad shape, taking out the ceiling the carpeting. I think there's some paneling on a wall that would have to come out. Then we would build some walls in there for a judges chamber, a hole through the wall into the lounge so we can get a room for the reporters office. Then we're really not planning to do anything with that computer room until they do something with that or maybe never. There's so much equipment in there we couldn't really remodel around it without disrupting everything or ruining the equipment with all of the dust and stuff. So we're not doing that computer room, we're just talking about getting them a space to have a courtroom. We would be putting back in new woodwork as I said and patching and plastering walls. There is a ductwork right now that's stubbed off to this courtroom that would be extended to provide fresh air and ventilation air to the space in addition to what we have for ventilators around the outside. Then new electrical would have to be put in obviously. Then we'd do the finishes, the carpet and some new ceilings and paint the walls. That was kind of the base project and we were looking at that as the first need. There is also a need upstairs. There is 2, what we call them turrets, where on the third floor off of the courtroom there is spaces where they can use either a judges chambers or a conference room and they're really not being used now so it makes sense just to fix those up in the same manner. There's not much demolition that needs to be done. But they need new finishes, plaster is coming off. They have to patch it, paint it and put in new woodwork. Then you could use those spaces with the new lighting electrical, mechanical is already there in those spaces. So we're thinking about we would bid the courtroom as a base bid and then these 2 rooms could be an alternate room and then you could decide whether you have the money at the time. Then an additional alternate, Pat was wanting to get that ductwork extended to the lower floor on the lounge and the County Attorney has some offices in there and over to what used to be the juvenile probation. I'm not sure what that office is, that's County Attorney too. That never was the... The ductwork from the air handler was never extended to those offices for ventilation so we could do that at this time and bid that as another alternate so you could get a price for that. So the numbers on all of those, basically the base bid, just this courtroom we're thinking $150,000 for the 2 judges chambers on the top floor. It looks like we could do those for around $30,000.
Stutsman: Apiece?
Dobberstein: Together. Then the ductwork extending that $10,000 but I think we'll handle that. Those are project costs so they include a contingency, they include the fees and expenses that you would have for printing and things like that.
Jordahl: You mentioned the woodwork and I'm not familiar enough with these rooms to remember what the woodwork looks like but I want to express caution about ripping out woodwork that may need to be refinished or something if it's of a historic type as opposed to just going for things that may not be consistent with the building.
Dobberstein: Well let me explain what there is. There is a fairly large base, it may be at least a foot tall. There's a chair rail that goes around the entire room and then there's a picture rail, right now that's up where the ceiling is, the ceiling used to be hire and that picture rail came down a little bit. Then there's obviously trim around the doors and windows. The wood that's in really bad shape is the windowsills because over the years the water and condensation has dripped and rotted and it's been cut out for wiring and I don't think there's any salvaging that. We could give the contractor the option to try to keep this woodwork and restore it versus replacing it. We did that before on the north side, when we gave them that option at that time they decided it was cheaper just to take it out and restore it with new woodwork that would match the profiles. Up on the top floor courtroom on the south side we decided we wanted them to keep that and restore that. We being the Supervisors at that time, so that woodwork was all restored and it's the original. There was much more elaborate woodwork around the judges bench and behind and so... And it made sense and it was in pretty good shape. Down here in this room it's in pretty bad shape and I personally think it would be cheaper just to take it out and put it back in in matching profile. If you want to though we could bid it both, give the contractors option to bid it both ways and if you want to and really think it important we could say it has to be restored similar to what we did at the top floor courtroom.
Jordahl: Well I'm not necessarily arguing for this particular piece of wood which has sat here for X hundred years but rather for the style, to not have mahogany...
Dobberstein: Absolutely we would match all of the new woodwork that's been put in already and...
Lacina: Your work in the past has been excellent. Sometime stop up and take a look at Ed Steinbrech's office and some of those that they have reconditioned and restored. You've given us very good advice to do it as efficiently as we can. We have a very acceptable....
Dobberstein: We want to continue, that's the plan.
Lacina: On opening 103, 4 and 5 those are going to pass the fire code you think, on the lower level. I realize what we're doing is not having a room for fire purposes open into a room but (inaudible).
Dobberstein: Your (inaudible) through one other room and...
Lacina: Those will pass you think?
Dobberstein: I believe they will. We have not run this past the City Building Inspector yet though so that's a good point and we need to do that to make sure this is acceptable but we have that situation in other places in this building and it's not any different so I don't anticipate that they would object.
Lacina: The other discussion was the escape route for the judge in the event that somebody came in with a weapon and so the escape route would be that circular staircase.
Dobberstein: We set this plan up to Carol Edmundson, he's supposed to review that. I think he's already talked to Pat about adding another door that's not shown on this plan is that they will have that escape route. I mean they can go up the circular stair if they want to but we're talking about a door to the lounge.
Stutsman: The door... Oh from the Courtroom.
Dobberstein: From the Courtroom yes.
Langenberg: They had talked an additional courtroom, oh I'm sorry door right next to 105 there as a possibility. It would be emergency exit only.
Stutsman: OK. Where are we as far as cost for this Pat, can you review that, I mean in the budget?
Langenberg: We have $155,000 for the Courthouse itself.
Stutsman: And that includes that 45 for the...
Langenberg: That includes the arraignment, they have shown it as courthouse space. I guess that was it.
Stutsman: So then if we went along with this we'd need about 45,000 more?
Langenberg: I think when I was up here before you said go with the (inaudible) on the additional turrets upstairs and the fresh air for downstairs which I recommend definitely being done because they've got some spaces down there. Those 3 houses on the side of your paper there are the County Attorney, they really need it bad.
Stutsman: And that's what those vents are is for fresh air?
Langenberg: Fresh air and it's air conditioning and heating both.
Lacina: But if we held off on the 2 turrets we could do the rest real close within budget you think?
Langenberg: You'd be real close yes. We're talking approximately $160,000.
Lacina: OK the one turret used to be the evidence storage room right?
Langenberg: They were both storage rooms. They've been storage rooms for as long as I've been there.
Lacina: So we could probably wait a year as far as remodeling those into next budget season?
Stutsman: Would that work?
Dobberstein: The bigger the project I think you attract more contractors, but you could wait yes.
Jordahl: I'm not familiar with these judges chamber rooms on the third floor but are we talking about extensive patching here or could a person go in there with a paintbrush and roller and make these things acceptable.
Lacina: No there's some cases where the...
Dobberstein: No there's huge pieces of plaster missing.
Lacina: Yes, they're tough.
Bolkcom: Weekend project.
Lacina: Waterline break and...
Langenberg: See we could never even get into those rooms. That was evidence only, that was Clerk of Court and the Sheriff only so we never even saw those rooms for quite a while so they really deteriorated.
Stutsman: Will they use these rooms if we redid them?
Langenberg: They say they're going to be for offices slash conference room. But their complaint was going through a courtroom to get to these rooms and that was their only downfall on them.
Stutsman: Because I think I was up there once and they're pretty dismal and it's going to take some work to make them that you'd want to spend any time in there. I don't want to spend $30,000 that once we get them done they're not going to want to spend any time in there.
Jordahl: Can the courtrooms be scunched together. What's in the middle there?
Dobberstein: There's a jury room and there's judges chambers and there's restrooms and no you can't... You wouldn't be able to...
Stutsman: This is a very simplistic...
Dobberstein: Yes we're just showing you part of the plan here. To me it's space that's not being used and if you're in a space needs crunch it's easy to grab and somebody will use it even if it's just for storage again.
Stutsman: Well I guess I would say go ahead with this first part and the second part next year.
Lacina: What's your recommendation to us. You were saying there were some efficiencies in going out with one bid versus 2.
Langenberg: I was going to say lets go ahead and get these costs and put them on as alternates and you can come back and...
Dobberstein: Maybe it's less than I think. The smaller the project the harder it is to estimate so we could be off.
Stutsman: OK, lets just do that.
Jordahl: You might get these done for a lot less then $30,000.
Stutsman: OK this looks good then.
Lacina: Good work.
Dobberstein: There's also a schedule here that's been proposed.
Stutsman: Are we on schedule?
Dobberstein: We're on schedule.
Jordahl: OK.
Stutsman: OK.
Dobberstein: We're hoping that you get some good bids because this will make a nice winter construction project for some of the smaller contractors and everybody has been real busy but this time of year would be the time to sneak this in.
Lacina: Well and as Joe said, the timing of the completion, they get part of it into the next fiscal year in which case we would be able to...
Bolkcom: Although April 15th is the (inaudible).
Duffy: Sally and I went up there an (inaudible).
Dobberstein: All right.
Stutsman: All right thank you.
Lacina: Thanks.
Bolkcom: Thank you.
Stutsman: OK business from the County Auditor, maybe put that off until next Thursday? Business from Planning and Zoning Administrator Discussion regarding service agreement between Johnson County and East Central Iowa Council of Governments regarding the land use plan. We have a letter in our packet. Morning Chad.
Sands: Morning.
Dvorak: Get you back on schedule, you've all read this. Being as they've started this and have been working with us for the last 2 years it would be illogical for other consultants to with us but financially this is on an as needs basis (inaudible). So I was (inaudible) about signing a contract. (Inaudible).
Lacina: I support that idea.
Bolkcom: Well being someone that's not always logical I would suggest that we consider because of the status of where we are in the plan, we've kind of paused to kind of regroup that we consider if we're going to this kind of an RFP situation that we're getting help that we open this up and consider other possible consultant help, including this proposal. That we maybe look, there's a number of people that are out there that are doing some work in surrounding counties that might have some ideas on how we might proceed.
Duffy: That's' changing horses in midstream. I don't like that proposal at all.
Dvorak: Well we used ECICOG for moral support primarily and that's why they're not telling the Board what a comprehensive plan should entail. The Board tells us basically. So again I really hedge on starting this system all over. As you mentioned putting out RFP's to the consultants to assist us but I'm not sure what direction to tell them we need to go with it.
Jordahl: Well I think that's exactly Joe's point is this question of the direction of the responsibility of the leadership, of who established what part of this process as it goes forward is something that's on the table for a joint meeting between ourselves the zoning commission and Pat White and it seems a little previous to talk about commitments to how that process is going to go forward until we've had that meeting.
Dvorak: But again don't you agree that their position is primarily support.
Jordahl: I'm not sure.
Bolkcom: It's not defined very well I don't think.
Jordahl: I guess it was my understanding that the assistance was assistance with planning.
Sands: Well and that's exactly support.
Jordahl: So support for planning how does that differ from planning. To me they blend into one another extricably.
Dvorak: Well I think if we went out and hired another consultant they primarily would be doing the same thing, even in the private sector that ECICOG is doing now. They're not dictating to the Zoning Commission or the Board how to write a comprehensive plan, land use plan. They're primary function is to do what you tell them to do. So and very seldom have I ever seen the private sector compete with the public sector. Karen Countryman is doing Linn County's right now and they're bid has gone to 50,000 or 60,000 dollars. Our bid with ECICOG was 7,000.
Sands: $5,600 for the first not to exceed figure.
Dvorak: I mean if you want us to go out and spend the time to do that, I mean you always do what you tell us I would like to know the reason why because it's very time consuming.
Jordahl: The question of competing with the private sector, I guess when you say compete there you mean be comparable price wise.
Dvorak: Yes definitely.
Jordahl: We're not talking about, in terms of competing, the function that we're talking about. You point to Karen Countryman for example is to articulate a process by which the comprehensive plan will move forward. That's exactly what we're talking about sitting down with the Zoning Commission to establish. To say that we're going to continue in the present pattern is to prejudge the outcome of that conversation and I don't think I'm ready to make that decision now.
Duffy: Well there's 2 votes for... Again we're going to have to start over, now unless we don't have any plan...
Dvorak: Well we could wait until after our meeting with the Zoning Commission. I think that's what your both saying.
Bolkcom: Well I think there's some confusion out there frankly.
Duffy: I don't think there is.
Bolkcom: I don't think we're starting over with anything. I think we've developed a lot of good work and some good input that we're going to use to complete this plan but I think we are at a point of trying to define what is the next stage of the process of doing this. I guess I want to be open to the possibility of getting some input from some other people that are doing work in planning in our region about how we might proceed to do that as opposed to us kind of saying we know the route. So I would like to wait until after that meeting with the Zoning Commission so the Board can consider what their opinions are at that point before we sign onto a contract. I guess the other thing would be, this should be a more competitive process that's more open at the same time.
Duffy: ECICOG has a history of doing a good job when it comes to land use. So I would suggest putting it on for Thursday. I guess you'll be the swing vote Sally.
Stutsman: Yes.
Dvorak: This is a continuation of a contract (inaudible). They estimated X amount of time to get this completed and you've exceeded that...
Bolkcom: So we owe you money?
Dvorak: That's why they're saying we need to extend that contract now because we've expended 2 to 3 times what we thought we would have in their minds you might say.
Sands: To give you an idea I guess, we're a regional planning agency. We bill on a not to exceed basis and to do that we have to at the beginning of the project sort of estimate the time it takes to complete a project so we can figure out our cost which is on a not to exceed basis so we don't reap a profit for our agency. We are a non profit agency so we, and frankly sometimes we underestimate the time it takes to do a project and obviously this project we all underestimated the time and frankly that's ECICOG's problem because we signed the contract. But on the other hand we did complete I guess a plan and now certainly it's the County's prerogative to change that and I guess we had a process I though when we started, it's nebulous now where this process is going and what's left to do it may take a good year even more to finish the plan and I guess from our agencies standpoint we cannot continue to provide the quality service that you deserve to finish this plan unless we I guess enter into this new agreement. So that's where we're coming from.
Jordahl: It makes a lot of sense that you pose the question in that way. This is absolutely appropriate. You've put time in, exceeded what your time that you thought it was going to take, that makes sense to me. What doesn't make sense is to say that we're going to agree to go forward in the same pattern because we're discussing the possibility of changing the pattern. That's what's going to get discussed and I think I want to make that decision after we've had that conversation.
Dvorak: But can't they fulfill, even if we do change the process, they can still assist us in the new process.
Bolkcom: Sure could. Sure could.
Jordahl: Again Joe's talked about an open process of making that decision. I mean I think what we're talking about here, Chad has said that we have a product that he thought saw as a... completed product like here's the plan.
Sands: I didn't necessarily think that.
Jordahl: Maybe it needs some work by the Board or whatever, but that there's a product and that this is a reasonable time for ECICOG to come and say all right we fulfilled our obligation putting in time and produced this. Now we're at the stage of saying, at least I'm at the point of saying, that I want to see this go forward through some more stages of a process. Now that may be conceived of as a different process from what has been going on up to this point. Or it may not be conceived as a different process, but that possibility is certainly open and I want to leave that on the table.
Moore: Well the process has always been according to the Code of Iowa and as a matter of fact we exceeded the requirements for public hearings and things.
Sands: In a sense there is only...
Moore: The Board got some it apparently doesn't like and you don't want to change the process you want to change what it says, so you want to do something different which is your prerogative. But Rick and I cannot keep up with, on our own, the changes that we'll have to do over the next few months as you folks decide how you want to proceed to come up with a document that you can live with. We don't have time for that and you won't find in the private sector or the public sector a planning agency that can give you a lower cost on providing what ECICOG. ECICOG's contribution has been collecting the data, analyzing that, putting it forward, they can't generate any of the goals or objectives. That came through the public hearing process. The only reason I'm saying it is you're not going to find a less expensive consultant.
Sands: I think R.J. touched on a very important part there, you're not really changing the process you're changing the plan which is certainly within this Board's prerogative. I mean that's natural. You're not changing the process, I guess if you will.
Bolkcom: Well we haven't changed anything really.
Sands: No. Exactly.
Bolkcom: We've added a few things that were in the existing plan. To the degree to which we have a lot of the data gathered I think East Central has done a wonderful job helping with that part of it. The question is what is next? We're moving into a new phase. I don't think anybody really knows what that is.
Sands: I disagree with that.
Duffy: I'm sure you do.
Sands: We know what the process is to get there, we just now have to come up with the perfect plan, or not the perfect plan but the plan that is best for Johnson County and that's the goal.
Bolkcom: We don't know what the process is going to be next. Are we going to take this plan, are we going to do more public input? Are we going to establish a committee?
Sands: Well that's up to the Board.
Bolkcom: Right. So we don't know what the process is and we don't know what the final outcome of the plan is. There's concern about that and the degree to which we've gathered a lot of the technical data using East Central Iowa has been very effective. We've got that. My sense is the level to which we're moving now is not so much that kind of work. I hear what you're saying as we move ahead we do need to provide our staff some support, whether it's East Central or some other organization or person. I hear that. I'm prepared to do that and it could be East Central, but I'm not ready to make that decision now. Do we meet with the Zoning Commission? Do we the Board talk about whether we want a panel, whether we want more public? What exactly we're going to do to jump start the completion of this thing.
Duffy: We've had panels in the past in the North Corridor. Again, they're in the business and they're cheap. They started this. I understand the last one took 3 and a half years and it is a start over if you get another entity in here so like I say let's put it on to vote for it. Or vote. You don't know how you stand, that's the reason why you're here.
Stutsman: Well, I'm the swing vote so I would suggest that we just wait until we meet with the Planning and Zoning and with the County Attorney and see where we go from here and then re-evaluate.
Lacina: Well I will say that sometimes the perception of the public is that we don't know what we're doing and if you're building a building or building a plan you establish a contractor and you stay with that plan.
Duffy: That's right.
Lacina: You don't switch construction companies in the middle of a construction project and in this situation the other person that bid on the RFP admitted that they couldn't come in close in the price. As a matter of fact, there were really hard feelings in that whole process, why we got them involved. But it's 3 to 2.
Bolkcom: We're also at a point a couple of weeks ago when there were 4 members of the Board that said we need to talk about his more. That's what we're doing now.
Lacina: We can talk it to death.
Duffy: What do you think of the plan so far? Do you like it?
Stutsman: That really isn't on the agenda right now Charlie, so...
Duffy: Yes, but it's discussion on the plan.
Stutsman: Is that OK, that we'll just plan to?
Dvorak: Whatever you want. Linn County has just got a completed conducting their vision needs, same as we did. So to give you an idea the process we use is very similar to what Linn County is using with a little variation. They spend a lot of money.
Moore: If they just had more money the could also be very concerned (inaudible). Both points are valid that I'm hearing for us to interact. I think what Steve had to say is valid that ECICOG is doing a good job. I think that Joe's point it valid too, that depending on what comes out of your meeting with P & Z. We may need some specialized help that ECICOG can't do. There is things that they can't do so I think it's good to wait as well.
Bolkcom: Well, maybe we'll want somebody else and ECICOG.
Moore: Yes.
Duffy: You're going to have to pay them. We're spending money like water up here. You don't even have any... We just got through discussing space needs and now we're getting somebody else to...
Stutsman: No, we haven't made that decision yet Charlie.
Duffy: Well I kind of think that a couple Supervisors don't like what's going on and want...
Dvorak: We did sent out the press release on this joint meeting yesterday between...
Stutsman: Oh, and that was set up for the 30th.
Bolkcom: 5 o'clock.
Stutsman: OK, here in the Board Room then?
Dvorak: Yes.
Jordahl: So we've got all 5 members of the Zoning Commission.
Moore: Yes, reluctantly a couple of them, but all 5 are going to be here, plus Pat.
Stutsman: All right.
Bolkcom: Cool.
Jordahl: I think this is one of the most important things that we're going to do in this term as Supervisors is to do this right and we get something we can live with and that's the idea.
Stutsman: Pardon me? It was October 30th at 5 o'clock?
Dvorak: Correct.
Moore: Yes.
Stutsman: OK. Thank you.
Moore: Thank you.
Sands: Thanks.
Stutsman: It's almost noon. Should we ask the County Auditor to maybe come in Thursday and review that?
Bolkcom: That'd be great.
Peters: The cash flow?
DISCUSSION: NEW BOARD MEMBER TO SERVE ON HERITAGE ADVISORY COUNCIL
Stutsman: Right. Then business from the Board of Supervisors. Joe do you want to talk about your...
Bolkcom: I'm the Board's representative of the Central Iowa Council of Governments and the Job Training Partnership, JTPA, Board as well as being the Chair of the Johnson County Council on Aging. I'm also a member of the Heritage Advisory Council and the sequence of those meetings is typically the 4th Thursday of the month. JTPA meets at 11:30 a.m., East Central meets at a quarter until one, and Heritage meets at 1:30. More recently I'm not been able to regularly attend the Heritage Meeting, which I think is going to be increasingly important in the coming months as they, there is some discussion about some reallocations of dollars away from Johnson County base on percentage of population in their 7 county region. So I'm feeling like I'll probably need to be more actively involved in the Advisory Council. I guess I'm wondering if anybody is interested in sharing some of this.
Stutsman: I'd be willing to go to JTPA if nobody else is willing to do that. I've been doing some things with the Innovation Board that kind of ties into Workfare or (inaudible). Unless Charlie you want to do that with your role...
Duffy: I don't have time to do it. I'm up to my neck in...
Bolkcom: OK. Maybe you and I can talk Sally about month to month what's going on. They're back to back meetings. The JTPA meeting, they meet at the Cedar Rapids Public Works Building. They're back to back meetings and they provide lunch.
Stutsman: JTP and what?
Bolkcom: And ECICOG.
Stutsman: OK, so it would be doing both of those. That's no problem.
Reverend Bob Welsh: The Advisory Council doesn't meet every month.
Bolkcom: That's right. For example, the Advisory Council is meeting the 4th Thursday this month. Which is Thursday and then East Central is meeting the 5th Thursday this month. So I'll be able to do them. But I think it's, with the changes going on at Heritage I think we should be well represented. And we have Bob Welsh, Harold Stagger, there are several other people that attend.
Jordahl: Isn't there also a question here Joe of another member, are we missing one person on the Advisory Council?
Bolkcom: Harold Ingin was appointed yesterday to fill out our task force.
Jordahl: Harold Ingin is going to do that. OK. I guess I didn't track with that.
Stutsman: So you would continue with Heritage Agency on...
Bolkcom: Right. I would continue with Heritage and you would take that on or we could share it if you can't make it and I can.
Stutsman: East Central.
Bolkcom: Right.
Stutsman: OK.
Bolkcom: Maybe on a month to month basis we can visit about what's up on the agendas.
Stutsman: That sounds good. I'm busy too Charlie, but I think I can work that in. I don't want to give the feeling that I've got idle time.
Bolkcom: Sure. That's it. Thank you.