MINUTES OF THE INFORMAL MEETING OF THE JOHNSON COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS:
OCTOBER 6 AND 8, 1998
TABLE OF CONTENTS
Chairperson Bolkcom called the Johnson County Board of Supervisors to order in the Johnson County Administration Building at 9:02 a.m. Members present were: Joseph Bolkcom, Charles Duffy, Jonathan Jordahl, Stephen Lacina, and Sally Stutsman.
Bolkcom: Call the informal meeting of Johnson County Board of Supervisors to order for Tuesday October 6. Good morning, everybody.
Lacina: Good morning.
Bolkcom: Item number 2 on the agenda is review of the formal meeting minutes of October 1st. Any comments or question on those minutes? They'll be on Thursday for approval.
Bolkcom: Item number 3, business from the Planning and Zoning Administrator, a) discussion regarding update from Bob Barker regarding the sand and gravel conditional use permit CU9706.
Planning and Zoning Administrator Rick Dvorak: Good morning.
Bolkcom: Good morning, Rick.
Dvorak: Recently the Board had asked me to invite Mr. Barker to come in and bring us up to date on the status of the sand and gravel pit. Where they're at, where they are in compliance with the requirements of our conditional use permit that we issued last year to him. So this morning I do have Mr. Barker and he did come in to bring you up to date on what he's doing.
Bolkcom: Great.
Sand and Gravel Representative Bob Barker: Good morning.
Bolkcom: Good morning. Come on up. Thanks for being here.
Dvorak: I also did invite Mike Gardner to come in too (inaudible) you had some questions (inaudible)
Bolkcom: OK. Good.
Barker: Maybe the best thing to do is just go down through the conditional use permit and see how we're doing. First item was the bond which (inaudible) furnished. Rip rap the interior slope of the river bend and covered... In addition to the rip rap in the submittal. Rip rap in the submittal has been completed and approved by the Corp. We can't do the interior slope until there's a slope to do. We put reclaimed asphalt on the Isaac Walton League Road and intend to maintain it during the satisfaction period. Next year we'll probably have to update that little bit maybe add some more oil or some calcium chloride whatever the County Engineer wants. We've increased the setback from 50 to 100 feet. (Inaudible) that all trucks will stop at a stop sign as a condition of hauling S & G materials. Last week we finished the road into our shop and we'll be putting a stop sign up this week or next. There will be no asphalt or ready mix plants erected on the property. Which there won't be. Agreed to blade and spread rock on Driftwood Lane annually. We just completed that last week. We think we've got rock everywhere there was rock. There was some confusion as to what the Loop Road meant, it was referred to. So to resolve it we just rocked everything. We rocked about a mile of road down there. As far as we know we've rocked everything that (inaudible) rock.
Jordahl: Yes. You went the extra mile on that one it looks like. Yes.
Barker: I guess 7 and 8 are similar ones for Driftwood Lane the others for the Bluecoat. We did them both. Build a bus turnaround. We've done that. We agreed to build a 3 sided school shelter. Which we've done, it's in place. We agree to relocate the mailboxes. We've provided a place for the mailboxes and most of the people have moved them. There's few that haven't and the letter carrier says that she's putting notes in their boxes to do that. She'll do that 3 times and then she's going to stop delivering mail to those boxes. (Inaudible) box onto the new location and it's marked so that she knows. We agree to slope the banks of the west pond in a period of 2 years. We haven't started that yet. We recommend...
Jordahl: Can we come back to the...
Barker: ...that the speed limit on the Isaac Walton League Road be reduced to 25 miles an hour. I strongly recommend that. I don't know if you went to do that by putting up signs or what. But I know the County was going to do that. There is a lot of speeding down there right now it should be slowed down. We've agreed to test Kay Hull's well for nitrates. I sent you a letter in regards to that. Our normal hours of 7 a.m. to 5 p.m. The archeological studies have been done and I think you've probably gotten a copy of those reports. They came up negative as far as finding anything interesting.
Jordahl: Uh-huh.
Barker: Number 17 seems to be kind of a duplication of item 12 which is sloping the banks of the west pond. Are there any questions?
Bolkcom: Any questions?
Jordahl: I was going to ask about the mailboxes. Why is there the distinction between providing a place for the mailboxes and moving the mailboxes themselves?
Barker: I don't think that we could really take somebody else's property and physically move them ourselves. We can provide them a place to put them and notify them that that's where (inaudible) have been. That that's where the letter carrier wants them. I don't think we really have the legal right to go down there and... We don't mind doing it, but I'd really hate to lose somebody's... One person said they don't want their mailbox moved.
Jordahl: Yes. I wouldn't be surprised by that either.
Barker: So I'm really uncomfortable moving that mailbox. It's no big chore to move them. It's just...
Stutsman: You're just leaving that up to the individual mailbox owners as their responsibility. You provided a place, but...
Barker: Yes. We provided a place...
Stutsman: ...they're just going to have to go...
Barker: ...and notified them about it. Most of the people have moved them, but there's a few that haven't.
Jordahl: OK.
Bolkcom: OK. Other questions?
Duffy: It looks like you've done a really good job. Congratulations.
Barker: Thank you, Charlie. (Inaudible) happy with our operation.
Stutsman: Maintenance of the road, I've been down on that road a couple of times. Went down again this morning and in the scheme of things I don't think it's really bad. It does have a few holes in it and stuff like that. How will we get the holes out of there and things? Can that be bladed or...
Barker: Yes. (Inaudible).
Stutsman: So you will be responsible for maintaining that and blading it.
Barker: From the railroad tracks to our entryway.
Jordahl: Uh-huh.
Stutsman: OK.
Jordahl: We went down the other day to look at that and did not go back into where the operation was actually going on because the road going back there was muddy looking. In another situation in an analogous operation west of Coralville there was a lot of mud that trucks brought from an operation, where they were doing a lot of digging where internal roads were mud, out onto the County road and ultimately out onto the highway. Although it's not a condition here it just makes sense to me, in terms of your own road maintenance there, if you put all this effort into this crushed reclaimed asphalt. That it would make some sense to make it so that you wouldn't drag mud out onto it and make a mud mess out of it.
Barker: That's what we did last week.
Jordahl: Did you?
Barker: Yes. We put the asphalt all the way back to our plant which is a quarter of a mile back there. So it will be asphalt all the way from the plant to the road.
Jordahl: OK.
Barker: So we shouldn't be... I know what you mean and it is a problem...
Jordahl: Yes.
Barker: ...to track mud out onto the...
Jordahl: Yes. I...
Barker: ...road.
Jordahl: We had to deal with that other situation. It just wasn't safe.
Barker: I'd invite you all, either one at or time or in groups or whatever, to come down and take a look.
Duffy: We were down there the other day. There's one question I want to ask you and I think I asked Mike or Kevin this. The railroad tracks as you go off the paved road there. Is the County supposed to fix that or...
Barker: I don't know who owns that road...
Duffy: Or...
Bolkcom: City of Hills.
Duffy: That's a problem I know and maybe you'd more about it.
Marietta Gill: You know who owns that road? The State does.
Duffy: The State owns that road?
Bolkcom: The State owns the road, but when you get off the road it turns into the City of Hills' responsibility, apparently.
Gill: No Joe, that's not what I found out.
Bolkcom: Really. It's been our understanding that the little stretch there that's all potholes between the surface of the highway and the railroad tracks is Hills' responsibility.
Gill: (Inaudible) week I drove that. I went back in and we called different people and it is owned by the State to the railroad tracks they came down and filled them at that time. Now I would be very willing to work with Bob Barker on something. Like, we need to notify the State when the potholes start getting large. I'm sure when we have more truck traffic that might become a problem. But I'm sure too that if I went and talked to Bob Barker about it he would fix it, or try to fix it.
County Engineer Mike Gardner: I don't think...
Bolkcom: All right.
Barker: We'll take care of the County portion of it, but I don't think we're going to the State right away and fix the State...
Bolkcom: Right. I think you... I think that's right. We don't have any... We could certainly call... If it is the State's, which we need to check on that, we don't have any problem with calling them ourselves because it does need some work. We could do that. Mike, did you have a comment on that?
Gardner: I checked on it probably when this was going on.
Duffy: Yes. Quite a while ago.
Gardner: I talked to the State and they claim that they didn't maintain that except the shoulder area through the intersection. That's the way they do it on all of our County roads that intersect. They maintain just through their shoulder area and it's our responsibility from there on. The problem here is the railroad right-of-way buts up against the DOT's right-of-way. And Hills has annexed the railroad right-of-way. So it was my understanding that that would have been Hills' responsibility to contain the railroad right-of-way up to where the State would take over through their shoulder area. I contacted the mayor of Hills at the time, told her about it and that was the first she knew about it. But she told me should would research and get back to me if she needed to. I never heard anything more from her.
Lacina: I think in the past we received a letter from them saying they didn't have funds to adequately deal with the situation in Hills. This has been years ago when the gentlemen to the south, I can't think of his name, came in and wanted a resort down there. But at that time we had a question on the road and Hills said they were not able to make that commitment to that. So it looks like it's just going to kind of be hanging out there.
Stutsman: I don't think Hills can make a commitment equipment-wise, but I certainly think we could enter into some kind of 28E agreement. I guess if they're going...
Lacina: We can try.
Stutsman: ...annex, or you know, take that railroad, then there was an obvious reason to do that then I think this is part of the responsibilities for this plan. I think they need to understand that responsibility. I think we can cooperate wherever we can, entering into some contract that... We obviously have the equipment that we could maintain it. But I think that they need to assume some of that responsibility.
Jordahl: Uh-huh.
Lacina: Sounds good.
Duffy: I don't think it costs that much because it's just... How long is that? About...
Gardner: 30 feet.
Duffy: 30 feet?
Bolkcom: I had a couple questions...
Stutsman: Well...
Bolkcom: Go ahead.
Stutsman: Should we write a letter to Hills and just say that we need to have some kind of...
Lacina: Understanding.
Stutsman: ...dialogue or commitment from them about maintaining this. Because there's obviously, is going to be complaints, that's the worst part of that road is between the railroad and the highway. So I think we're going to have to deal with it and come to some kind of conclusion.
Bolkcom: I think a letter would be a starting point.
Duffy: That'd be a good idea, Sally.
Jordahl: Uh-huh.
Bolkcom: All right.
Jordahl: There's discussion at the State level on requiring a certain time limit for extension of City services after annexation. I think it's perfectly appropriate to request this.
Bolkcom: All right. So who's going to draft the letter? Should we draft it?
Stutsman: Oh, I was going to say you're Chair.
Duffy: Send them a letter.
Jordahl: It might be... Mike...
Bolkcom: Mike and I could...
Jordahl: Yes. Probably would be better to (inaudible).
Bolkcom: ...touch base (inaudible).
Duffy: (Inaudible) just a concern, like you say it'd be different a big long stretch, but it isn't.
Lacina: We might use our agreements with adjoining Counties where we have maintenance agreements on roads as a template just to try to work something out with them if they're agreeable.
Bolkcom: OK. Mike, you and I will talk.
Gardner: OK.
Bolkcom: All right. I had a couple questions related to the agreement itself. It's the issue of the seal coating of the road. You indicated that you're pretty much done for the year and maybe next year you'd talk about some sort of dust alleviation.
Barker: Yes.
Bolkcom: Seal coating is quite a bit different process than calcium. What are your plans for that? I guess I would say that in terms of that item on the list of conditions, that one hasn't been met at this point.
Barker: Yes. We got some recycled... What I call recycled seal coat on there now and probably have to have some oil added to it or... I know last year there was some discussion they'd rather have calcium than oil. I don't know if I read that right or not, but we'll either put oil or calcium whichever the County wants.
Bolkcom: All right. It just... I was down over the weekend it seemed to me, and I was maybe in the minority position on this, that the road was pretty rough. I don't know to what degree seal coating...
Barker: It won't help that (inaudible) still wash away.
Bolkcom: You'd have to put some rock... I'd assume you'd have to put some smaller aggregate rock... in terms of the seal, to fill it up. I don't know it just seemed like the material you used, decent surface, but pretty rough surface. And whether seal coating or not is going to smooth that out, I don't know.
Barker: I don't think it's going to hold it. It'll smooth it out for a while, but... I think if we keep it bladed up and the dust down it might be the best way to go. You put the seal coat on and then when you blade it, you lose it.
Bolkcom: Right.
Duffy: What road are you talking about, Joe? Our part of the road or the private... That private part?
Bolkcom: No, I'm talking our part of the road.
Duffy: Well private part, that's been rough forever.
Bolkcom: Right. No, that's probably rougher. I didn't drive the private part. I just drove the part... I mean if we've just done work on this road...
Duffy: (Inaudible) down to the Y.
Bolkcom: ...it seems like we ought to have a better... It's got a solid surface on it, it's a rough surface, it might be fine for trucks. I guess I just want, in terms of seal coating the Board should be clear about what we want here. Do we want calcium chloride or do we want seal coating. They're pretty dramatically different.
Jordahl: Uh-huh.
Bolkcom: The other question I had is related to maintenance and whether or not we want a private individual maintaining a County road and what the liability issues there are.
Jordahl: That question was addressed in as much as we required Mr. Barker and his company to improve this surface as part of the conditional use permit. Wouldn't that be accurate? We've put him in the position of improving the County road. Is there a difference between that and maintaining it?
Bolkcom: I guess I'm raising the question.
Duffy: I would think there would be. This is a one time thing...
Stutsman: I guess I would...
Duffy:...as far as...
Stutsman: ...be interested in what Mike has to say.
Duffy: ...maintaining, we're talking about 2 different things here.
Stutsman: Mike, what's you're feeling about...
Gardner: I guess my understanding... On the seal coat, my understanding was it was going to be a chip seal surface. Maintenance I felt that he was going to... they were going to maintain it so that the surface was kept adequate. We just had the discussion a little bit ago about snow removal. I guess personally I don't feel... I think we should be getting of that. (Inaudible) responsible for, like the signing and so forth, just to make sure that we're keeping up to the...
Jordahl: Uh-huh.
Gardner:...our legal requirements on that. I think we probably feel the same way as far as snow removal and that type of thing.
Bolkcom: So seal coating isn't going to need blading?
Gardner: No.
Jordahl: The...
Barker: But what happens when the potholes develop and (inaudible)? Do they go fill those?
Gardner: They then patch those with a cold mix or something.
Barker: That'd be you're responsibility?
Gardner: I feel that would probably be yours (inaudible).
Bolkcom: But the question is who would do the... Would they do the work? (Inaudible) rational...
Gardner: We could work that either way.
Bolkcom: OK.
Gardner: We could do it and then bill them or however you want to handle it.
Jordahl: That's where this thing... I think Joe's question of liability, is that we have our standards for our roads and we have Kevin directly responsible for keeping track of that and doing it. I guess... not to suggest that you don't supervise Kevin, but I'd like to hear what you have to say about that too, Kevin.
Maintenance Supervisor Kevin Hackathorn: I'm thinking part of the problem we were... When this all came about was what kind of surface because in the spring with chip seal is naturally going to be your best temporary dust suppressant or whatever. But in spring we embargo all of ours with truck traffic that's going to tear it up. There again if we're going to do the maintenance on it we're going to be down there everyday if they're hauling heavy trucks over it in the spring when everything is soft. That's where our big maintenance is going to be. That's the problem I saw from the start of this. I didn't think of the liability of Bob taking care of, when he's going to take care of it. Well that's not going to be anything out of our pocket or whatever because the trucks will eat it up pretty good in the spring.
Jordahl: Have you thought about that, Bob?
Barker: I know it says seal coat here and we'd be glad to do it. But I think if we blade up the stuff we've got and keep the dust down we're going to have a better road for everybody than if we seal it. Then you get a pothole or something and then it's hard to patch.
Stutsman: Well just the embargo in the spring. There would be no way you could embargo that road with that truck traffic.
Barker: I think we put enough heavy material in there now, I don't think we're going to have too bad of a problem down there in the spring.
Stutsman: I think we have a solution that we could...
Barker: We couldn't feel that much asphalt in there.
Jordahl: Just in terms of your own operation, you've got trucks that are going to have to transit in and out of that lane.
Barker: Yes. (Inaudible).
Jordahl: You're going to have to do some substantial roading in there just to...
Barker: That's why I think if we maintain it with our maintainer, if the County doesn't mind us being on their road, that's what I prefer to do. But if I put a chip seal down we're going to destroy it the first time we maintain it.
Jordahl: Kevin?
Hackathorn: I guess I agree with him, when he does go to maintain... You can't blade a chip seal and that's why we keep the trucks off it as best we can, but when we get heavy ruts in them that's when we blade in our cold mix with the truck. We just haul in tons of it and blade it in. I guess we need to decide what we're going go for. I can see the problem he's going to have if it is chip seal and it starts pumping in the spring and gets all out of shape, when you blade it that chip seal's gone. But it is the best dust control there is. I mean besides going with asphalt.
Jordahl: What is the condition actually state? Does it state chip seal?
Barker: It says seal coat.
Jordahl: Says seal coat.
Bolkcom: Place reclaimed asphalt on the road and seal coat. Mike, did you have a comment?
Gardner: I just wanted to check with Kevin, what kind of luck have we had putting calcium on this type of material?
Hackathorn: I don't think we really have. We've...
Lacina: We've used that bull mag in the past to grind up roads so that we had... didn't have incompatibility problems on a couple roads, but I don't know where we put calcium on asphalt.
Hackathorn: Calcium, I know before we've tried it on shoulder work along asphalt road on the gravel. The problem is, of course, this is a straightway, but on hills and curves that chloride would draw the moisture and then you've got a wet pavement. It got real slick when we first tried that so we quit doing that. I've never really mixed it with asphalt, millings like this.
Jordahl: I suspect that it's not going to work because the... I'm guessing that the way the calcium chloride works is that it sort of bonds when it's dry and forms like crystals or something and it helps to... That's probably how it works to solidify the road surface. It's working with the limestone, where with the oily stuff it's going to have oil in between.
Gardner: That was my concern because I know on old oil roads, chip seal roads when we did the bull mags that we had to add a lot of additional...
Lacina: Material.
Gardner: ...material to it otherwise those chunks of oil tended to work their way up. It created a problem. When we put the other aggregate in there and the fines, then it created the crust you're talking about for the surface; it kept the surface more smooth.
Jordahl: Uh-huh.
Bolkcom: Is there any rock in this road at all? Did you guys put any rock, other than the material you brought in?
Barker: It was all asphalt.
Bolkcom: All right.
Stutsman: So was there a lot of...
Barker: We brought in asphalt.
Stutsman: What's the problem then, is it dust? Is there a lot of dust with this?
Barker: There will be. We have to control the dust and we also have to keep the road smooth enough for cars to travel on. Those are the 2 things.
Stutsman: So could we accomplish that with calcium chloride and blading it on a regular basis?
Barker: That's what I think I'd like to try and see if we can't do it that way. If it doesn't work then we'll have to try something else. Maybe we'll just have to experiment a little bit.
Bolkcom: Yes, sure. I guess what I'm hearing is that we need to put some rock on that road in order to make the calcium work.
Barker: No I don't think so.
Bolkcom: No?
Jordahl: That's what...
Bolkcom: That's what I'm hearing, but...
Jordahl: ...I heard Mike say.
Bolkcom: That's what I'm hearing back here.
Gardner: My concern is the oil that's coated the aggregate that's there, calcium won't be able to get into the particles. The oil and the calcium don't mix.
Lacina: He's not doing the heavy application, though, of a surface like we've been trying to accomplish where we were doing the cheaper version of chip seal. I think what Bob's trying to do is just dust control so actually he doesn't want it to adhere to the clumps of asphalt. He's hoping it actually does get down in the rock and hold the dust. That's what I'm hearing.
Bolkcom: Mike's saying it's not going to get into the rock because of the oil.
Barker: I guess what I'd say further, let's try it for a month or so and see what happens. If it doesn't work then we'll go and try the chip seal or whatever you recommend, but I think it'd be worth a try. I think we can maintain a better road with the blading than we can with the...
Jordahl: The condition says seal coat.
Barker: Yes.
Jordahl: When I was down there probably shortly...
Barker: It would be approval of the County Engineer.
Jordahl: Probably shortly after you guys put that road down it looked a lot nicer. It was really pretty smooth, pretty solid looking and I thought, hey this is working well because the oil in the gravel and chunks and stuff is sort of merging, is sort of melting this into a surface. But it hadn't been hit with an oil overcoat and I'm thinking that the seal coat surface... This may be like a new technique you're working on here, helping us experiment with road surfaces, that rather than calcium chloride which is not inherently compatible with oil that if you put oil down over this existing asphalt that that might be more chemically compatible.
Barker: We can try that.
Jordahl: That would cause the surface of this stuff to merge much like the calcium chloride causes the limestone to merge together. My... I'm no road engineer here, but I had enough chemistry in high school to make me...
Bolkcom: To make you dangerous.
Stutsman: Yes.
Jordahl: ...think that like goes with like. If the road does... What'd you call that, buck?
Lacina: Bull mag.
Bolkcom: Bull...
Barker: Make it washboardy is what I call it.
Jordahl: In the spring when you go over it, worse than washboard, it actually sinks and raises and stuff. What was the term you used for that?
Hackathorn: Sometimes there'll be a frost boil, but other times we just call it pumping the surface...
Jordahl: Pumping, there you go. I like that.
Stutsman: That sounds good.
Jordahl: Pumping the surface...
Stutsman: It's alive.
Jordahl: ....if you start pumping the surface down there and...
Bolkcom: It's alive.
Jordahl: ...have to go into and re-blade it then I would suggest hitting it with oil again after blading it. Then you might develop a surface over time that had more oil with it and it would sort of tend to more stabilize. Especially if as you say you have a thicker surface of that stuff on there. Polk County goes in with these applications of asphalt, a real thin asphalt, over a seal coat and rock base. They go year after year, eventually build up something that's fairly substantial and it kind of functions like a regular hard surface asphalt road. Maybe you've got a situation that's analogous to that where it could work and it wouldn't be as bad as what you experience on a regular seal coat situation.
Barker: We'd be glad to blade it up in the spring and infuse with oil and see what happens.
Lacina: Until you've had one year of operation... Your first year when those trucks really start hitting that road...
Barker: It hasn't been...
Lacina:...we don't know what's...
Barker: It hasn't been tested yet.
Lacina: So before we put in a really hard surface or something I'd like to give it a year to just really establish a base, carry some tonnage. There's going to be some big tonnage move out of that. Then I think we could take a... and reassess, but for the first year let's kind of experiment with it. If the calcium doesn't work then we're going to go to the oil. Is that correct?
Stutsman: (Inaudible).
Jordahl: I guess I disagree. I think the condition says seal coat and it would make the sense to me is to shoot it with oil and see what happens with the buckling. Because I think you've got a pretty good road surface there now if you put oil over it you're going to stop all of this water play that goes on, on the surface right now. You've got lots of infiltration and stuff (inaudible) help that water run off of there rather than going down in and breaking it up.
Stutsman: I guess I would like the recommendation of the Road Department. What do you guys think will work? Sorry. I put you...
Gardner: I thinks it's going to be... I don't think any of us knows what's going to happen once these loads start going over. If it is a situation where it's going to be pumping like that you're not going to be able to hold an oil surface.
Bolkcom: Right.
Gardner: Once you get... If it's stable and you can get a good crown in it, a good surface put on it, and then chip seal over the top of it and it's not having any of this movement. Then you're going to be better off with the seal coat. But if there is some of this movement we're talking about a chip seal is not going to hold up.
Stutsman: We have to play it by ear? Is that what...
Hackathorn: It's... right now it's too late to oil it anyway. So I guess if we oil it now most of it's going to be taken off in the winter. I guess I would say that we wait until it warms up after next spring if you've got some more asphalt millings finer and laid it on there and you have material blade in these potholes. Then it will take us through next spring and we can decide what that's going to do. (Inaudible) late spring we'll know if we should oil it or not. If it completely blows up then I would say no, but if it rides through pretty good then seal coat might work out pretty good in the long run. I don't know how long it's planning on being open. Did you say 5 years?
Barker: 5 years.
Bolkcom: All right.
Lacina: I think our objective is the same...
Gardner: Getting through the spring is going to be the telling point. To get through the spring.
Bolkcom: It'll be in the spring. OK.
Stutsman: Yes.
Bolkcom: All right.
Jordahl: Speaking of 5 years, I've heard some talk about adjacent property...
Bolkcom: Let's stay on this before we go to that. Let's be sure... I don't want to go off to another...
Jordahl: All right.
Bolkcom: ...sand quarry discussion. Rick?
Dvorak: What's the process to... I had some questions about the speed limit. What's the process to change that speed limit to 25 or 30 whatever the Board recommends? Is that...
Bolkcom: The Board would have to pass a resolution based on the Engineer's advice.
Dvorak: OK.
Lacina: And the Sheriff.
Stutsman: Does the Sheriff's Department get involved with it too?
Bolkcom: And the Sheriff.
Gardner: That's the way we've been handling it this year.
Stutsman: Yes.
Bolkcom: Do we want...
Stutsman: So do we want to direct...
Bolkcom: Does the Board want to see that happen?
Stutsman: ...Mike and the Sheriff's Department to give us a recommendation? (Inaudible).
Lacina: Yes.
Gardner: I can get a hold of Bob.
Bolkcom: All right. That sounds fine.
Stutsman: I was going to say we also saw the turnaround for the school bus. My understanding, if the School District is happy with what's been worked out down there and the shelter and things...
Dvorak: R.J...
Barker: As far as I know.
Dvorak: R.J. talked to the Superintendent, Bob (inaudible)...
Lacina: Bob Smith.
Dvorak: ...(inaudible) school (inaudible). At first I think there was some question, then he went down there again and we asked him to a call us if he had any problems at all with the school bus turnaround, anything. And he's never called us back. So we have to assume by that that it's... They're satisfied with that turnaround.
Bolkcom: Maintenance. Who's doing it? Are we doing it or are they doing it? In terms of blading. I assume we're done this year doing any work on this road. Are we doing anymore blading to deal with potholes or any of that?
Barker: If it gets bad, we've got to blade down there. We'll blade it again.
Stutsman: I thought Bob was...
Bolkcom: I guess...
Stutsman: ...going to do the maintenance and we were going to do the snow removal on the signage.
Lacina: Yes.
Jordahl: Uh-huh.
Hackathorn: I guess some of the spots I've seen down there should have...
Bolkcom: I understand.
Hackathorn: ...some more asphalt milling added to it so you've got some material to blade into the potholes and reshape it because... I don't know where you got the asphalt at, but I know we've got some real fine millings that work pretty good for blading around and top of culverts and stuff and stuff we (inaudible). That might work for you as far as filling the holes. I think it would be...
Barker: How much of that material do you have?
Hackathorn: We've got a little pile out at our shop, but we just bought it up at Riley's in Cedar Rapids. I think he sold it to me for $5 a ton or something.
Bolkcom: Definitely need some finer material if you're going to blade it around. The other question is do we oversee the blading? Do we supervise the blading? Do we know when the blading occurs? Do we have flag people out there? I guess I am uncomfortable a bit with having a private entity grading one of our roads. I know that we agreed to do this in terms of the initial application of this material, but I'm getting a little cold feet about this. Is there any oversight of this by our crews and if there aren't is that... What liabilities do we have? If somebody runs into his grader and gets hurt on our road.
Lacina: Probably not as great a liability as the pipeline down south where they're putting in the bypasses around our culverts and (inaudible) directly over our roads. But yes, we do have liability and ultimately if one of his graders is it hit, we're still the deep pocket no matter what. I would assume any grading that would be done would be under Kevin and Mike's authority and supervision. Obviously it has to meet our standards, but I think we need to be flexible here as well. If there's a pothole and they need to run out and patch it, they're right there in their trucks. There's a lot of tonnage...
Bolkcom: Yes. I know, I hear that.
Lacina:...moving and if it isn't fixed quickly it could become worse very quickly.
Bolkcom: Mike?
Gardner: What I might suggest is something similar to the work you were talking about. They have been given a permit to work in the right-of-way...
Lacina: Right.
Bolkcom: OK.
Gardner: ...and we have...
Lacina: Disclaimers.
Gardner:...the certificate of insurance and Johnson County's name doesn't (inaudible) insured. We could issue a permit similar to that to Bob...
Lacina: I suggest we do.
Stutsman: Yes.
Gardner:...for like, a year. When the maintenance needs to be done they could be out on there covered by that permit.
Bolkcom: Do we need notification of when they're on the road?
Gardner: I don't...
Bolkcom: Do you want to know, in terms of supervision or any of that?
Gardner: I don't see...
Bolkcom: OK.
Gardner: ...it as a necessity.
Bolkcom: OK.
Gardner: I think we check on it from time to time and see if it looks like it's being maintained properly.
Hackathorn: I'm sure it's the same operators that laid the road out and they did a fine job of that. It's just... maintenance is going to be just blading it once and a while, fill in the potholes until we find out what surface we're going to end up with.
Bolkcom: OK.
Jordahl: They're going to be seeing it every hour down there, in terms of oversight, you're going to know when the road needs attention.
Hackathorn: I'm sure their drivers will let them know...
Jordahl: Yes.
Hackathorn: ...if they're hitting bumps.
Bolkcom: All right. Anything else? Mr. Barker thanks for coming in...
Lacina: Just a...
Bolkcom: Marietta, do you have a comment?
Gill: I would just like to say a few words.
Bolkcom: Could you introduce yourself please?
Gill: Yes, I will. My name is Marietta Gill. S & G has been with us for a year now. We probably had the best roads that we've had in 20 years. I would just as soon Bob Barker's person grades because he's a top notch grader. Our roads look better, anything I've asked Bob to do, he's always been very willing to do. Any questions, (inaudible) the same way. If you look at the area and think of the good things that have happened. One thing that does upset me is people continue to throw garbage in that one... We get calls. They say one time, and they say, oh there's ammonia smell, there's something going on. Really there's nothing going on except people continue to dump garbage.
Bolkcom: OK.
Gill: But I do want to say as far as the State's concerned, we're happy.
Stutsman: That's good to hear.
Gill: If we're not happy, I know what he looks like... And I'll mention that to (inaudible). OK? But we're... I think it's improved down there a lot. Bob and I've talked about if we can get everybody to move the mailboxes where we belong then he'll take out those old mailboxes and that will even make the area look better. Rick I think you better go down there and look at that Driftwood Lane, some of that junk.
Stutsman: Put it on you list, Rick.
Bolkcom: So we've got some dumping going on. We'll check into it.
Stutsman: Yes.
Gill: As far as S & G, they've done a fine job for us so far.
Bolkcom: Very good. Marietta, thank you.
Gill: Uh-huh.
Bolkcom: Steve did you have a...
Lacina: Just a real quick point, yesterday Charlie and I and Jim McGinley met with FEMA. They have a couple of new programs out and Bob if you would meet with Jim afterwards. It's a voluntary program for people for relocation out of flood plains. There's a 75% Federal match, 15% State, and then the other 10% can be an in kind. But they will move a home if they want to get it out of the flood area. They will pay relocation costs or if they just simply want to destroy the house they'll pay them the substantial value of their home to relocate people. Because they're going to stop paying flood damage.
Stutsman: Uh-huh. Yes.
Lacina: For some of the homes after '93 if they haven't taken any mitigation, another flood comes and they're out of it. So they're giving one more program. But anyway some of the area down there, there may be some sites that you may be able to help us in relocation of homes or there may be some homes that are close to boundary lines that might be interested. But it's all volunteer, the people have to want to this. If there is there's some moneys available. I just thought, Jim's back there and if you could... He could brief you on that program. The other thing is we're going to have to write a County plan which is going to be a requirement for the Feds for flood insurance.
Bolkcom: Sure. I think it would be helpful to have...
Lacina: (Inaudible).
Bolkcom: ...Jim come in on an informal in the near future and update the Board on this.
Duffy: He's back there...
Bolkcom: It sounds like a very interesting and important program maybe for some County residents to learn about.
Jordahl: Yes.
Lacina: And we're just learning about it now.
Bolkcom: Yes.
Lacina: So as the regs come down and we get more information we definitely will because we'll have to have this plan in place. We'll have to target the worst potential flood damage.
Bolkcom: All right.
Lacina: Anyway we'll put that on for another (inaudible).
Bolkcom: Let's put... Jim when would you be able to come in and talk to us about that?
Disaster Services Director Jim McGinley: I'm off on vacation the next 2 weeks.
Bolkcom: All right. When you get back...
McGinley: I can do it the following Tuesday.
Bolkcom: Yes. That'd be fine. Why don't you do that.
Lacina: We're still waiting for stuff from the State.
Stutsman: Is there anything else to do with S & G that we need to...
Bolkcom: I don't think there are. Mr. Barker, thank you for coming in this morning. Mike, thanks. Kevin, thank you. We're going to move down to item c and that's discussion regarding adoption of a building code for rural Johnson County. We have some visitors here with us this morning that want to visit with us about this. Good morning, Rick.
Dvorak: Good morning, again.
Bolkcom: Do you want to introduce your...
Dvorak: I'm back. As your aware the last few years we've had more and more questions about the County adopting a building code. Last year we received a letter from the Iowa City Home Builders Association supporting the idea of the County adopting a building code. I had some contact with the Linn County and Cedar Rapids Home Builders Association, they're very interested also and supporting and obviously having some members on a study committee. So what I tried to do was work out kind of a proposal for the Board to look at, and you should have copies of this. I think they were attached to the agenda for you. I've invited Jim Martinek, who doesn't appear to be here at this time, and Glenn Siders, representing the Home Builders Association, to come in and discuss this with the Board to see if this is an option the Board wants to at least investigate.
Bolkcom: Do we want to wait a minute for Jim to appear or you want to go ahead?
Dvorak: If it's OK with Glenn, I don't know his timing, but I guess we could wait and have R.J. do his.
Bolkcom: What's the Bored wish on this? It might be helpful if we wait a minute. He may be here any minute and we could talk about Sensitive Areas just for a minute. (Inaudible) OK?
Duffy: Is Jim going to represent himself or...
Dvorak: Yes. He's only here as himself because he's had some personal damage to his own home.
Duffy: Because this is a very controversial issue.
Bolkcom: All right. Why don't we go ahead... We'll put that on pause for and have R.J. come up and visit with us about an update on the Sensitive Area Ordinance and the work of the Committee that we've appointed.
Assistant Planning and Zoning Administrator R.J. Moore: Good morning. We'll I'm just going to briefly go back over what's happened so far. Back in March of '98 your Board established a Citizens Advisory Committee to review and revise the proposed Sensitive Areas and Conservation Subdivision Design Ordinances that staff had previously presented to you for your review. The Committee held it's first meeting in April of '98. At that they elected their Chair, Bill Young, set their meeting schedule, the 4th Monday of each month and identified their purpose. The Committee decided to begin working on the Sensitive Areas Ordinance since it was felt that the Conservation Subdivision Design Ordinance was subordinate to that. Of importance was the Committee's unanimous agreement that the intent of the new ordinance was to achieve the goals defined in the Johnson County Land Use Plan. The Committee, however, decided not to include prime agricultural land. It was the feeling of the Committee that the preservation of agricultural land could best be handled in a more direct manner by the Board of Supervisors and the Land Use planning. Since that time they've established a definition sections, they have identified Sensitive Areas. They are now beginning to work on the implementation of the process section of the proposed ordinance. For their October 26th '98 meeting they have invited all of the engineering firms that have done business with the Planning and Zoning Department over the last 5 years in to discuss the implementation process. The Committee's basically interested in knowing how the engineering firms would represent their clients in regards to the Sensitive Areas Ordinance. They're especially interested in knowing if the firms have staff that can do the required analysis and how much it would add to their clients bills. The Committee has 2 more meetings scheduled for this year, October 26th and November 23rd. At this time I'm not sure they're going to finish by the end of the year. They, like staff, have placed great importance on the implementation section of the ordinance. we feel that if we are to create and adopt such and ordinance we must be able to implement, enforce, and monitor it to ensure that it is achieving it's intent and goals of the Johnson County Land Use Plan. Once the Committee approves a Sensitive Areas Ordinance they will begin working on the Conservation Subdivision Design Ordinance. When they have completed work on both ordinances they will represent both to the P & Z at the same time.
Duffy: This is for new development or what is this for?
Moore: For any new applications that we would receive.
Duffy: Any new applications regardless of one house or subdivision.
Moore: That hasn't been complete. The original proposal was that as our Subdivision Ordinance does where 4 lots or more is the trigger mechanism, that's in there right now. At our last meeting it was brought up that maybe they would like to have it apply to 3 lots and less. So they're thinking of an area requirement maybe that along with 4 lots or more there might be a minimum acreage requirement. But so far they haven't worked that out and it's something they'll probably be working on over the next few meetings.
Bolkcom: All right. Other questions?
Stutsman: R.J., having the engineering firms come in as that going to be on the 26th did you say?
Moore: Yes. 26th.
Stutsman: OK.
Lacina: I think under the stated purpose they're... The beginning started quite well and then it lost its focus. So under item 3, define allowable uses for property containing sensitive elements, I think it could be rewritten to state, to protect sensitive elements. It refers to dealing with any property that might have a sensitive area in it as opposed to dealing to protect the sensitive area in it. So it could be misconstrued that if any piece of property has a sensitive area that the whole property might be affected. When, in fact, if we're looking at the realistic objective of protecting that area that is what needs to be dealt with. So items 4 through 8, for example 5, promote development that provides for open space, is not really germane to sensitive area. It is a good objective in terms of planning and zoning, but not... that may want to be reviewed by the Committee just to see if those are really relevant to the sensitive areas. Other than that I thought... Because I went through the document and I saw it was 4 and up. Overall I think the objective of identifying and protecting was very good.
Moore: I think it depends on a person's perspective as they look at the proposed ordinance. Some see it as a tool to prevent growth or basically slow that down, and others would look at it and see it as a very open document that would allow growth. I think the Committee's focus is that it's not there to prevent or encourage anything, it's there to preserve environmentally sensitive areas. That's their whole intent, what they've been trying to stay on.
Lacina: Good.
Moore: They still feel, I think, that you could have a piece of property that would have environmentally sensitive areas on it you would still allow some development on that property it just would not be on any environmentally sensitive areas. They would protect that.
Lacina: Number 9 under Purpose, I thought should almost be set as a goal which, is to accommodate the development of livable communities while protecting and preserving areas of environmental concern, sensitive areas. I thought that could be almost stated as a separate goal and objective of the plan. But again the Committee is doing the work and they're doing a good job.
Planning and Zoning Intern Bridget Carberry: They haven't really even looked at the Purpose section of it.
Lacina: OK. That was just a template that we pulled and...
Carberry: Yes. That was how we... Cole and I...
Bolkcom: Cole wrote them he didn't just pull them.
Lacina: Well, Cole.
Bolkcom: (Inaudible) wordsmithed it.
Carberry: They haven't reviewed that section at all. I think that they'll do some...
Lacina: OK, that's fine.
Carberry: ...revisions in the Purpose section before we're done.
Lacina: OK, that's fine.
Bolkcom: If they... definitions, work on the definitions are any indication, about half of that will be gone. Be stricken out. Charlie?
Duffy: Again, R.J., I think it's important that the public knows exactly what this is for. So we'll have to... You said maybe 3 lots or down, or 4 lots, before we get into... I might have a problem with, excessive slopes. I know on the proposed Land Use Plan draft there's going to be a lot of competition against that because it doesn't say... it just says slope. But I see that there's more to it here in the environmentally sensitive ordinance. (Inaudible)...
Stutsman: It's pretty well defined.
Duffy: ...slope of 5% or 10%, is ridiculous.
Bolkcom: All right.
Lacina: But wasn't 15 feet and... was it a 15% slope was the...
Moore: The Health Department, yes.
Lacina: Yes.
Duffy: This is what they said, but the proposed Land Use Plan just says slopes.
Moore: Again...
Duffy: I've always had a problem with that.
Moore: That section of the proposed ordinance was this past month's focus of their meeting where that presented and they worked through that. I think what they basically boiled it down to... and Glenn Siders is here, he's a member of that Committee and if I'm speaking in error, Glenn might correct me. But I believe what they came up with is that there are some definitions for slopes and the severity of those slopes. This ordinance is not intended to stop any development on a slope because if we're going to develop in the County that's the more likely place for us to do it rather than on good flat farmland. But what it would say is that if you're on a certain slope, of C or D range or E/F range whatever, that certain measures must be taken to develop that then, certain soil erosion control practices would be taken to protect the slope.
Duffy: Good idea.
Lacina: So it wouldn't prevent, like a Stewart Road development or Woodland Heights some of those, but it would draw additional attention to taking significant areas and protecting them.
Moore: Right.
Lacina: But then in protecting (inaudible) construction site.
Moore: Right.
Duffy: One other thing, say you had 39 acres, and you're going to build one house and go through zoning maybe on 2 or 3 acres, does this sensitive ordinance pertain to the rest of the acres of the 39?
Moore: The original proposal was for 4 lots or more, and again, I answered earlier, I believe the Committee is going to take another look at whether or not they would like to add a minimum acreage requirement. If they do, I would assume the 39 acres would fall within that minimum acreage requirement and it would be subject to meeting the sensitive areas ordinance.
Duffy: In other words, say a house was on an acre, then 38 acres it... I might have a problem with that...
Bolkcom: Yes.
Duffy: ...because they'd probably never develop it. It might be...
Jordahl: (Inaudible) it might...
Duffy: ...classified as ag. There's ag ground less than 40 acres and...
Moore: Probably what that would do would guide the house to that area of the 39 acres that was appropriate to build and would be the least impact. I think that what's...
Bolkcom: Right.
Moore: ...we'd intended.
Bolkcom: Yes. In terms of the details of this we do have a Committee continuing to work on this. There are a lot of details that have yet to be worked out. People should feel free to go to those meetings and speak what they think. I would not... I don't really want to get into a conversation all the details of the proposal this morning...
Stutsman: Because this is just...
Bolkcom: ...maybe focus on process questions.
Stutsman: This is just an update isn't it? Just to kind of...
Moore: Yes.
Stutsman: ...tell us where you're at on it.
Moore: Right.
Duffy: Yes, but I... as Supervisor, I like to ask questions.
Jordahl: You bet.
Bolkcom: You can do that.
Duffy: I don't think I'm out of line at all.
Bolkcom: No. I want to talk about the time frame by when we might see some completion of this document. We've been working on it since April and we're through the definitions. Glenn or R.J. or others have any sense about when we're actually going to see completion of a draft on this.
Sensitive Areas Ordinance Committee Member Glenn Siders: I think the next meeting or 2, I think we're going to be struggling quite a bit because we're going to get into some philosophy questions. Philosophy questions, what does this trigger 4 lots, minimum acreage... There's going to be quite a bit of discussion on that. There's going to be discussion on who's responsible... You bring in a (inaudible) for years and years and it's not a sensitive areas. (Inaudible) get a surveyor out there to confirm it's not a sensitive... There's philosophical questions we have. I think once we struggle through that, which is going to take a good meeting, meeting and half to do that, then it will just be more or less putting the mechanics of this together. You'll have a Purpose sections, you'll have an Implementation section and so on and so on and so on. I think even though the Committee's a pretty diversified group I think we're pretty much all focused...
Bolkcom: OK.
Siders: ...in the same direction. I think the pieces will start to fall together fairly quickly once we get through... get over a couple of these larger hurdles. But you're not going to see it, I don't think, by the first of the year.
Bolkcom: Sure.
Siders: Because you've got holiday schedule in there and everything, but I would like to think that within the next 6 months you're probably going to see a 3/4 complete document or you're going to see a document that you're going to know enough to pretty much know where the Committee's headed with this thing.
Bolkcom: All right. The other question I had was about implementation. We talked about the private sector's role in implementing this. I guess I'd like to hear from staff at some point in the near future or consideration on what impact it's going to have on our own ability to enforce this. What is the County's role in ensuring that if we do have an ordinance down the road that it's being implemented appropriately and what are the impacts on...
Siders: That actually is going to be part of the discussion coming up the 26th.
Bolkcom: OK. Right. OK.
Lacina: Is an interesting point though, legally, whether or not if it is ag and row crop if we can go in and regulate that which I don't think...
Siders: It was decided by the Committee that row cropping is not... Row cropping is not a sensitive area. I think it's pretty well established by every member on the Committee that we have come up with sensitive area... You have wetlands, you have hydric soils, so on and so on and so on. Those are sensitive areas, agricultural... row cropping and stuff is not a sensitive area.
Lacina: OK.
Siders: That's...
Lacina: (Inaudible).
Siders: It's an issue that may be important to the County, but it's not a sensitive area. We're trying to focus just on the sensitive areas and how to regulate that sensitive area. We're not focused on prohibiting development in a sensitive area, but we are focused on development that would be controlled in a sensitive area.
Lacina: Glenn, is there a standard that you are using for the size of the sensitive area? Would 500 year old oak trees fall under the definition of a unique or sensitive...
Siders: Not as of yet.
Bolkcom: You haven't decided that. OK.
Siders: We will have to.
Lacina: OK, OK.
Siders: But not yet.
Moore: They have used criteria, like the Corp has definitions of what a wetland is.
Lacina: OK.
Moore: So they refer to that.
Lacina: It's based with some legal...
Moore: We use... Right. And the slopes, for soils, the A, B, C, D, type slopes and stuff. They use those as well and referred back to Health Department's hesitation to allow wastewater systems on slopes greater than 15. So they have used standard criteria so far.
Lacina: OK. That was my point. Good.
Siders: We're trying to tie everything in to allow existing... So you have the same regulations pertaining to 3 or 4 different...
Jordahl: Uh-huh.
Siders: ...organizations...
Bolkcom: Good...
Lacina: It's not confusing.
Siders: ...let it all read on the same level.
Moore: I'd like to answer your question a little bit from staff's perspective, Joe. Our first intent here is that this ordinance as it's being implemented would place the burden on the applicant and their engineers to provide the information in the ordinance that would be required. We know our resources in the County are very scare and to increase our budget to have a staff member and all the equipment we would need to support staff member out of our office is a touchy issue or one that would take quite a bit of consideration. What staff hopes, as the Committee moves forward, that again, the ordinance is written in such a way to place the majority of the burden on the applicant to submit the information that will be required. Then we believe that with what Rick and I have existing tools, that we would be able to take a look at anything submitted to us with our databases and see if there's any big discrepancies. And if there are then we would ask the applicant to take a look again to verify that. But right now, with resources as scarce and as valuable as they are we would like the burden to be placed on the applicant.
Lacina: But the 2 big controlling factors then, will be the building permit, the issuance of it and then the stop work order if you found that they're in violation.
Moore: That's what we use right now.
Lacina: OK.
Bolkcom: All right. Other questions?
Jordahl: Jim was talking about a time table and it's... We've been discussing the idea of committee work generally and how it proceeds, Land Use Plan has been a process that's taken us quite a while. I wondering, maybe Glenn from your perspective, have you got a sort of time table for completion for it? You're talking about 6 months, you're talking about the Sensitive Areas Ordinance, you're not then talking about the Conservation Subdivision Design Ordinance on top of that?
Siders: Correct. No we haven't. A policy decision was made early on in our discussion that we don't want to be obligated to say by January 1 we're going to have this done. Because we want a well researched document that can work and operate in Johnson County. So we're working on a... There's no time frame for this document. We all feel that the Conservation Subdivision Ordinance is a spin-off of the Sensitive Areas. Nobody's anticipating that taking a very long period of time.
Jordahl: Uh-huh.
Siders: That should be, I hate to use the term no brainer, but it should be fairly simple to put that together as a tool utilizing certain areas. It's not like it's an ordinance we've you've got to do this, this, and this, it's open that can be utilized to generate (inaudible). We don't see that as long periods of time. We have not purposely established a time for that.
Bolkcom: My sense about that... I'm interested in encouraging the committee to continue to move forward. Even on the point of the issue of complete the draft of the Sensitive Areas Ordinance then complete the draft of the open space or Conservation design and then present them at once. I'd be open to the idea of when you're done with the Sensitive Areas Ordinance send that forward and put it in to the process so other people can begin. Zoning Commission Board can begin reviewing it because adoption is going to eat up some time as well. Because we could be looking a year from now, frankly, before there's any draft...
Siders: I don't think that's unrealistic.
Bolkcom: ...I don't either. So, I guess I encourage the committee to continue put the energy. They're doing a good job. Keep it moving. Other comments. We just had a visitor come in. Are we through this?
Jordahl: I want to second the idea that the committee's doing hard work and important work. I appreciate the seriousness with which you're approaching it.
Bolkcom: Good. RJ, thank you
Moore: Thank you.
Bolkcom: Does anybody need anything?
Stutsman: Yes. I
Lacina: A cup of coffee.
Stutsman: Yes.
Bolkcom: We'll take a 5 minute recess.
Recessed at 9:56 a.m.; reconvened at 10:08 a.m.