Bolkcom: We're back in session. Before we hear from Roads Department on Prairie du Chien, Jerry Musser wants to visit with the Board for just a minute.

County Assessor Jerry Musser: Just wanted to tell the Board that Ron Lenz's funeral is sometime Thursday. I'm not sure of the time yet. My intentions are to close for 3 or 4 hours, close the office 3 or 4 hours, close completely for 3 or 4 hours sometime around that funeral time.

Musser: We'll be open, however it works out, a half day somehow or other. But I do intend to close completely during that day.

Musser: Just so.

Bolkcom: That'd be fine. Jerry, will you send out a notice of that? Just so people...

Musser: I can at least put it on the e-mail. I'll put...

Bolkcom: I'm wondering...

Lacina: Oh, for the press.

Bolkcom: Yes, publicly.

Musser: ...its in the newspaper.

Bolkcom: Very good.

Musser: As soon as we found out the hour I will do a newspaper thing...

Bolkcom: OK.

Musser: ...today. I'll have to call today so we get it in tomorrow.

Bolkcom: OK. That'd be fine.

Musser: (Inaudible) what I intend to do.

Bolkcom: OK. Very good.

Musser: Thank you.

Bolkcom: Thanks, Jerry. Before you go, one of the things that we've talked about, the Board, over the last few weeks is the question of whether we wanted... When we had an employee, essentially pass away while working as a County employee, whether we wanted to fly the flag at half mast on the day of the funeral. I think there was some consensus building around that question.

Stutsman: Uh-huh.

Jordahl: Uh-huh.

Bolkcom: Is that OK? Could we direct...

Musser: I think that'd be appropriate. I know he is (inaudible) and Ron is an Air Force veteran and member of the Lone Tree Legion. So I think they'd find that very appropriate.

Bolkcom: All right. Is that OK, Board?

Lacina: So you'll direct (inaudible).

Bolkcom: (Inaudible) to do that. OK very good. Thank you, Jerry.

Musser: Thank you.

Bolkcom: All right. We're down to item number 5 business from the County Engineer regarding discussion informational meeting held last Wednesday night on the Prairie du Chien Road Project. Good morning, Al and Mike.

County Engineer Mike Gardner: Good morning. We just wanted to come in...

Jordahl: I guess so.

Gardner: ...bring the Board up to speed on what took place...

Stutsman: Be nice.

Gardner: ...last Tuesday evening. We made a few sets of prints of the plans. Since the design is still very preliminary we didn't make one for everyone. We brought 3 sets and thought you could share off of those. Then we've got the larger one here. Initially I'll just kind of go through what the project involves and then try and touch on some of the comments that we received Tuesday evening. Then open up and let you people have a shot at any questions you might have for us. What we're proposing is reconstruction and paving of Prairie du Chien Road. It will go from the Interstate 80 bridge, the north abutment of the Interstate 80 bridge, north to its intersection with Newport Road. The south stretch, approximately 1,300 feet, will be curb and gutter, PC concrete pavement, and from that point north we'll have a rural cross section, ditches, shoulders, and 8 inches of AC pavement.

Stutsman: Mike...

Jordahl: What are those terms?

Gardner: Asphalt concrete is AC the...

Stutsman: Can you give me a physical bearing of how long this curb and gutter will go?

Gardner: OK, it's a quarter of a mile. It's basically up to where...

Lacina: Lang's.

Gardner: ...Lang's entrance is, just short of Lang's entrance (inaudible).

Stutsman: Their new house?

Gardner: Yes.

Stutsman: OK. All right.

Gardner: That would be the curb and gutter section. We're going to plan to stage this construction similar to what we have done out on West Overlook. Provide local access for the entire duration of the work. We will close it off so that it is limited to just the local residents. Because we can't work under the kind of traffic that's out there and get the project done in a reasonable amount of time.

Stutsman: What's the traffic count out there?

Gardner: The 1994 count was...

Assistant County Engineer Al Miller: 1,090.

Gardner: ...1,090 and I'm sure it's a lot higher...

Stutsman: A day?

Gardner: ...than that now.

Stutsman: OK.

Gardner: Yes.

Duffy: It could be a lot higher than that in summer with Coralville Reservoir.

Gardner: Uh-huh. The curb and gutter section is going to be... What have we got back to back, 37?

Miller: 37. Correct.

Gardner: 37 foot back to back in curb which will allow for 2, 12 foot lanes for traffic and then 6 foot paved area for a rec trail on both sides.

Bolkcom: Is that concrete? Which is concrete, the green or the black?

Miller: It all is.

Gardner: (Inaudible).

Bolkcom: OK.

Gardner: Then when we get out into the rural section we'll have 24 foot for traffic and 6 foot paved shoulders. They're will also be... The shoulders themselves will be 8 foot wide and the outside 2 foot will be granular, just as a cost savings. We're hoping to hit an April or May letting next spring with construction to start approximately a month after the letting, whenever that may be. We would hope to be finished up by this time next year with the whole project.

Lacina: Curb's going to be a real joy for the guys pushing snow with those blades.

Gardner: It's going to be... Yes, something they're going to have to contend with.

Lacina: Have we discussed this with Iowa City so that in time if they do some annexation this is consistent with their... The curb and gutter, obviously, is municipal standards.

Gardner: Right. I did mention... I visit with Rick Voss, the City Engineer, about it. So he's aware of the project and what our cross section design is in that area.

Jordahl: That raises a question, I don't know if it came up at the public hearing on this, why is it curb and gutter when it's a rural road?

Gardner: What we were trying to do was minimize the amount of right-of-way we needed to acquire.

Jordahl: Uh-huh.

Gardner: And that's the best way to do it.

Jordahl: Saving trees basically.

Gardner: Right.

Lacina: And people's front yards since those are houses are right up close.

Miller: We can fit that cross section within the 33 foot right-of-way... or actually 66 foot total. But you aren't going to be able to do that with the rural cross section.

Gardner: It's a lot more expensive to construct a roadway to that cross section, but we felt it was probably appropriate in this area.

Lacina: I'm sorry. Give me again... When are you going to go out with the bids and when does the proposed construction start?

Gardner: It will be a DOT bid letting and there's one scheduled mid-April and one late May. So it's going to... We're going to shoot for the April letting if we can get all of the right-of-way acquired and so forth between now and then. If not, we'll push to the May letting.

Lacina: And then...

Gardner: The construction would take place next summer and we're hoping to have it finished by this time next year.

Duffy: Mike, could I ask you again, last night we were out there. I thought we got along pretty good, just one of the residents was a little worried about his water system. I think that we kind of lucked out because that was a wide road anyway. Most of our right-of-ways aren't that wide or we'd be in real trouble. The curb and gutter is just going to end as you go down the hill or where does the curb and gutter...

Gardner: The curb and gutter will end...

Duffy: From Lang's...

Gardner: ...before we get to the hill right near where the Lang property is now where they've got their entrance off of the existing road. That's approximately the location of the end of the curb and gutter. It'll transition...

Duffy: I think of...

Gardner: ...into the...

Duffy: Yes. ...curb and gutter, I think about the bicyclist whether they hit a curb and bounce back. So I really don't like curb and gutter that great, but that's a necessity there on that hill.

Lacina: Refresh my memory on the abandonment of the existing easement.

Gardner: That's all still up in the air right now. We're dealing with several property owners in this area. We're hoping to get all of them together at one time so we can get it hammered out what we're going to need to do. Right now... We're going to have to provide access to the property here, here, and here. So we're going to have to make some kind of a connection in there.

Lacina: My concern was the 90 degree intersects which we can't do and the other side intersecting at the curbs. But if we come in midpoint, you think that would be a safe access?

Gardner: Yes.

Miller: It's going to come at a 90.

Gardner: It'll be coming at a 90 right here (inaudible) sight distance, curve (inaudible).

Stutsman: Is that that Syril Avenue?

Gardner: Yes, Syril Avenue.

Lacina: They'll be moving away from that hill which will help some too, to get it... with the grading it'll be a better access.

Bolkcom: So Mike, it was noted at this meeting that there's going to be some filling of a ravine. Where is that?

Gardner: That's this area right in here. The ravine itself runs along this property down in through here.

Lacina: It's deep.

Gardner: This is where we're impacting it is up here on this west end.

Bolkcom: So how many feet of ravine do we fill? That doesn't look like a substantial part of the ravine there.

Miller: It's about 100 feet.

Bolkcom: That's a fair amount.

Jordahl: 100 feet in length, but in depth...

Gardner: No, in depth. Isn't that what your talking about it?

Miller: No, I'm talking a 100 foot approximately...

Bolkcom: Out from the road?

Miller: Yes.

Jordahl: But down, you're talking another 100 foot.

Miller: Down... No that would be the end of the slope. I think it's about 15 to 20 foot deep actually, but by the time you run the slopes out...

Bolkcom: Why do we need an extra 100 feet there? If the existing road is right there now, why do we need to fill the ravine 100 more feet out?

Gardner: The road itself is going to shift this direction a little bit in order to get this curb in flatter.

Bolkcom: I see.

Gardner: We don't want to build a slope like is out there now, we have to make it flatter. So in order for our new slope to catch up to the old one that's where the...

Lacina: Do you have a choice or is that where that State comes in with that 15% site bank.

Miller: We have to have 4 to one slopes out to the clear zone. Then we can do kind of a barn roof. We can cross section it or steepen it up. But we still have to be able to maintain the slope and deal with the erosion problems and get it seeded and stuff.

Lacina: You ran that formula and that's where we came up with that 100 feet?

Miller: Yes, it's approximate there. Yes.

Lacina: 100 feet from the 66 foot edge or center road out?

Miller: From the center of the...

Lacina: Center road out...

Miller: ...the new road is actually, right here on the corner, is pretty close to the existing shoulder, existing edge of pavement.

Jordahl: Why couldn't we move that corner a little bit west and be able to keep our, like carve the slope, out of the existing...

Stutsman: Into that embankment? Is that...

Bolkcom: Right.

Miller: You're talking about moving this...

Jordahl: Yes, right, so as to avoid filling that area. The gully, or whatever you call it, the valley there, it was pointed out at the meeting at the public hearing, is on our list of sensitive areas that were surveyed back about '92, then the report from Steve Hendrick, that a number of rare and endangered species are there and it's something that we shouldn't do lightly, to go and bury it. So I am just asking the question what it would involve to move the road in such a way that we didn't have to impact that area.

Miller: You're going to have to have this curve and this curve here and this curve here have to comply with our design standards. There is also a farm house that's very old right here also with a couple of very old trees in the front yard. If you shift this any at all, we're going to be cutting through their...

Bolkcom: Pretty close to their front yard...

Miller: ...their front yard.

Bolkcom: Everything moves out.

Miller: That's the Cole property there. They...

Bolkcom: We talked to them.

Miller: We talked to them.

Stutsman: So it's trade off then?

Miller: Yes, it's a trade off. We can, we can definitely look at a different alignment but you're going to be impacting other people to save this area here.

Stutsman: What, just thinking because these are the kind of questions we are going to get, why can't you just take that whole road further north into the fields?

Miller: Back here?

Stutsman: Yes, further west. Yes, into the..

Miller: It's a possibility. This farm house has barns and stuff back here too.

Bolkcom: Can you go behind the house?

Miller: You're talking about going behind the house.

Stutsman: Yes. I'm going, just...

Bolkcom: Yes, but you'd have to put in a new bridge in there. I mean could you connect with the bridge if you went that far west?

Miller: That , see we'd have to cut back here, get around the back side of their barn and , cut their... they farm this whole area here. We'd cut that in half essentially.

Stutsman: Not that I am advocating this. These are the questions that people are going to say why can't you do this.

Miller: No, that's definitely a legitimate question. The reason why we didn't, here's the bridge here which... That bridge is probably in the vicinity of, I don't know you were here when they built it, probably 150,000 to $200,000.

Jordahl: No, that was before my time.

Miller: To renew this bridge, I'm guessing like $200,000.

Duffy: I remember that "L" and it was not an easy bridge to put in either. I'm glad we got it in there.

Stutsman: OK.

Miller: Yes. I can definitely take a look at it.

Bolkcom: (Inaudible).

Miller: You'd have to get back in here if you didn't want to take the buildings out and you're going to be cutting across...

Stutsman: It would just be cost prohibitive to put a whole new road bit.

Duffy: That's right.

Jordahl: But we're doing a whole new road bit for this stretch here. What I am suggesting is going over like this way a little bit. Flatten it out a little more. Go a little bit this way and...

Lacina: But he can't flatten his curves. He has to build those to DOT.

Miller: That's the problem we're getting into, to get compliant curves, I mean any adjustment we make here is going to affect this curve this curve we get down here too. As we do that it's shoving it this direction and getting into this property.

Jordahl: So basically what you're saying is that from this point where the road is straight to this point where we are in front of this house, you've done this straightest possible thing? It looks like we still have this "L" in here.

Miller: Yes, we do. Those are compliant curves.

Stutsman: Oh.

Bolkcom: (Inaudible) there's 2 huge oaks there.

Miller: Right at their driveway here, at the end of their driveway...

Jordahl: Talk about compliant curves, how about a straight line? I mean...

Bolkcom: You have to have a curve at each end.

Miller: That's exactly what we've got. We've spent quite a bit of time trying to...

Gardner: We didn't want to get into that ravine. We were trying to stay away from it simply because of the fill area. That's going to be difficult to construct and to maintain.

Miller: I mean, that is definitely not our optimum area there but we didn't have a whole lot... We had no room. We had quite a bit to fill which is not what we try to do.

Duffy: Well I thought we had a pretty good meeting out there, that they were just asking, and I can see why they would, how close will it come to the houses and all that. But one thing I thought you said, or Mike, that we lucked out on the grated. It would only be about 2 and 1/2 feet high or at some places 2. Really that really helps you out.

Miller: Actually when we get back on the existing road from here all the way up to Newport Road, I don't think we have a fill or a cut of more than 2 and a 1/2 feet.

Duffy: That's safer for the people.

Miller: Yes. We also have right of way in here that the County bought to build this bridge that we're not going to have to purchase any additional right of way once we get back on the (inaudible).

Bolkcom: Where is the bridge here?

Miller: Right here.

Jordahl: You've got another curve here. I mean there are 3 curves, 1-2-3. Couldn't we do it with 2 and go directly into that street?

Miller: Buy right of way down here?

Gardner: How are you wanting to get rid of this one?

Jordahl: Well this has gone maybe farther down than it needed to. If we just bring it...

Gardner: Well but this house sits right here. If we followed this straight...

Jordahl: You mean the house is right on the edge of the right of way?

Miller: This is the new right of way. This is the old right here.

Gardner: No, it's not right on the right of way.

Bolkcom: Can you draw the house on there? Or just kind of...

Stutsman: We should have had a road trip, gone out there and...

Miller: We still can.

Stutsman: Oh, I bet we will before it is all said and done.

Bolkcom: It's in the line of this curve here.

Jordahl: Actually the curve is past the house so we'd have to go through the barn.

Stutsman: Well this is...

Jordahl: Going behind the farm is possible though but it does mess up the farm.

Lacina: And the bridge.

Bolkcom: People will go absolutely wild if you talk about...

Lacina: Split their farms...

Stutsman: Doing what? Going behind the farm?

Duffy: Well that isn't a feasible way of doing it.

Gardner: Well I'm not sure we can get back in order to hit the bridge either. I mean that's another consideration we're going to have to...

Duffy: We're going to have to curve back.

Stutsman: Well we certainly don't know what the topography of the land is either. It may look like it's flat, it may be full of all kinds of challenges too.

Miller: I'm just guessing we might end up owning that whole property. (Inaudible) make it unfarmable.

Stutsman: Oh, maybe we could relocate...

Bolkcom: Yes, there you go. Off the agenda.

Miller: (Inaudible) it makes quite a bit more expensive and you haven't budgeted for (inaudible).

Bolkcom: These are verbatim minutes (inaudible).

Gardner: Some of the concerns that came up Tuesday night included the ravine that Jonathan mentioned, the trees that are going to have to be taken and then just individual people with individual concerns about how much right of way we're going to be taking and where are the utilities going to be located and so forth. The normal questions that we get at these types of meetings. I thought that overall it went rather well. I guess the feedback that I was getting was that most of them were in agreement that something needed to done but they did have concerns over these other issues.

Jordahl: Could we get a guardrail up there by that ravine and thereby get an exemption from DOT because of its designation as a sensitive area?

Bolkcom: We'll have a guardrail...(inaudible). How's that work?

Jordahl: So we wouldn't have to do the 4 to one slope there?

Miller: You're still going to get into the ravine. The new center line here is close to the edge of the old road. You're still going to get, just to get the roadway in there, you're sill going to get into the ravine.

Bolkcom: Is there any less getting into the ravine with that suggestion or is that irrelevant to it?

Miller: We'd have to ask for a design exception from the DOT. Whether they'd let us do it or not... Typically on new construction we try not to put guardrail up. The only reason we use guardrail is the ends of bridges and if we have a culvert that's too short on a rehab project.

Jordahl: If you were in a mountain state though...

Bolkcom: Yes if we were in Colorado...

Jordahl: ...you wouldn't be filling in valleys with a 4 to one slope. I mean, you'd have guardrails. This is an analogous situation. It's a steep thing that's an existing natural feature that you...

Lacina: What if someone is harmed. Somebody runs into that guardrail and you've deviated from the State standards, then just...

Miller: You've got to have some embankment for the guardrail to be placed on also.

Bolkcom: Right, it would be a marginal improvement. Maybe instead of doing 100 feet out, you could do 80 feet or 75 feet.

Miller: Yes and then you wouldn't have to deal with guardrail coming out so...

Stutsman: Well is there any planning that can be done with those plant species? Relocating them or if we know that we are going to be starting this project next year, I don't know... Sandy Rhodes and his group. Can they...

Lacina: Well how much of the ravine are we impacting? We're not wiping out the ravine, we're just...

Jordahl: Well 100 feet was suggested.

Miller: 100 feet from the new... I would say that 100 feet of the ravine is going to be impacted.

Jordahl: So lengthwise, rather than down the slope, it's 100 feet straight out.

Miller: Yes.

Bolkcom: How long is the ravine? It's raining again.

Duffy: Those farmers are in trouble.

Jordahl: Another question that was raised at the public hearing and that needs to be discussed by the Board is the question of speed limits here. I think it pertains both to the question of this corner and to the design standards being employed for the rest of the road and or the speed limit that we ultimately post there. We're going to have this posted at, what, 25 to 30 miles an hour at that corner, at the top of the hill there?

Gardner: Yes. I believe that the existing speed limit out there is 30 miles per hour.

Jordahl: I guess first of all I want to pose that as a question. How has that 30 miles per hour projected posted speed interacted with the design standards you are employing for the curve?

Gardner: When it's an existing condition, a 30 mile an hour speed limit, then we are allowed to design at or near that. They want us to design as much above it as we can. That's why these curves I believe are designed at 35.

Miller: Yes.

Gardner: Horizontal curves are designed at 35 so we're exceeding the 30 mile per hour posted speed limit on that.

Jordahl: Just by a little.

Gardner: Yes, just a little bit.

Miller: Those curves are barely...

Jordahl: You minimize those curves, or maximize them actually, by using a low posted speed limit as part of your design standard. And then the other end of that question, is on the straight away, when you've got a race track laid out, for people to go as fast as... You've got a design speed of what 60 to 70 miles per hour?

Gardner: Whatever we can get, yes.

Miller: One thing I did want to point out, not that I don't think you did a good job of getting that across, there's an area there when you go across the bridge that's basically flatter than a board now. Basically we're putting it back in flat as a board so you could say the design speed is way high. It's not our opinion that it would be a good idea to put some curves in there or do something to make the design speed lower. It just happens to be we don't have to do a whole lot to the grade or the alignment and it happens to be flat.

Jordahl: I'm not suggesting you do anything wrong with the design of the road.

Miller: I think when it came... OK, we've got a 60 mile an hour design speed or whatever, I mean if you've got a straight stretch of road in town, it could be posted at 25, you can see a long way, and it's straight. You could say, OK, the design speed on that is 60 also.

Gardner: It would meet a 60 mile per hour design.

Jordahl: Right, but it's a very different matter to have it in town. This isn't in town. This is rural.

Bolkcom: It's coincidental.

Miller: My point is it's flat now. It's basically going to be the same grade and same alignment when we're done. It happens to meet that standard now.

Jordahl: My point is that it's straight and flat and fast now and it will be faster and wider and prettier when it's done and our posted speed on that is, what, 40? Many times in this room we've discussed posting speeds at the 85% what people are actually traveling and I'm wonder why we've got this posted at 40 now for the first place and what it is we propose to post it at after we have spent all the money upgrading it. People are going to drive accordingly.

Stutsman: Is it posted at 40 now?

Gardner: Yes, from Newport road...

Bolkcom: So you're saying post it higher?

Jordahl: Well to be consistent with our practice elsewhere I got to wonder why this is 40.

Duffy: I think what was suggested last night, where Newport Road meets Prairie du Chien, that T, it will come in straight at a T, and somebody asked could we have a stop sign on Prairie Du Chien and Newport Road. That might resolve some of your...

Stutsman: (Inaudible).

Duffy: If you'd have to stop there, it would take a while to get going, go down the hill, which might have been a pretty good idea, I don't know.

Bolkcom: Right now, the traffic is stopped from the north and from the east.

Duffy: But to leave it there the way... I kind of think it would help.

Stutsman: Can we talk about the miles per hour later? I guess I would like to get back to talking about the roads and the trees and the alignment. I think there's going to be a lot of interest in this road especially with the trees and with the endangered species and things of that sort. So I guess I was just wondering what the Board's view is going to be on this. I guess I don't want to have the same discussion with the Board that we did with 120th street and there was just a lot of hard feelings with that. So I don't know, if the Board has thought about how we're going to handle this, I feel that you guys have made a good faith effort to try to minimize the impact as far as with trees and what not but...

Gardner: I mentioned earlier that was the major consideration in putting this in curb and gutter was to minimize the amount of right away and minimize the impact on the trees in the area. What we're doing is the clear zone requirements on curb and gutter are that it be clear of obstructions within 10 foot of the back of curb so that's what we're proposing on this. That will take several trees. It won't take as many as if we were putting in a rural cross section out there. There are going to be some that are saved.

Bolkcom: Why do we need to do it 10 feet?

Gardner: That's the design standard.

Bolkcom: And the posting is what there, 25?

Gardner: 30.

Bolkcom: 30.

Jordahl: Why can't we...Go ahead.

Bolkcom: Go ahead.

Jordahl: Why can't we extend the curb and gutter past this ravine?

Gardner: We can. It's not going to accomplish what you are trying to accomplish because we have to go out coming from the back of the curb. It has to be designed to drain back to the road so we're going to be filling off the top of curb and then having to come back down.

Lacina: So you go up and down then.

Gardner: Right. So you're actually increasing the elevation you've got to take back down to the...

Miller: You're probably going to be worse off then.

Jordahl: Uh huh. OK. I'm looking for solutions.

Gardner: What the problem is...

Miller: No, I'm...

Bolkcom: It's the center line's moving over to that middle of the road.

Jordahl: Yes, and that is really, we talked about the trees, Sally, balancing things. I think that is where a choice has been made here. That is something that, you're talking about where does the Board stand, for flexibility may exist. Correct me, if there isn't flexibility here. We've talked about designing these curve in sort of, the way that is most conservative in terms of not impacting properties and not impacting the ditch there. (Inaudible) ditch. What's the word that we're actually using for this?

Bolkcom: Ravine.

Jordahl: Ravine, the ravine there, thank you. I guess I want to, at the risk of repeating myself, ask can we move that corner west, to move the center line of that road west to avoid filling that ravine.

Lacina: Yes, if you take out those farm buildings and those trees.

Gardner: I think what you're going to be doing is eliminating this problem and creating one down here.

Jordahl: So it doesn't just impact things at that corner. It's impacting things down there. Couldn't we have a straight section of road between those 2 curves?

Gardner: (Inaudible) right now. That's the only straight way we've got.

Jordahl: Couldn't we just lengthen that?

Gardner: No, because these curves have to be a certain length in order to meet standards. Jordahl: Right, go the other way. I mean, push that, leave that north end of the straight section where it is and push the south end of the straight section south so, yes, just take your train track and...

Lacina: But you're still impacting the... The problem is the southern portion of the curve is what is affecting the sensitive area.

Jordahl: Right, and so if we...

Lacina: So unless you change it, if you move the other curve up, you haven't altered that initial curve up above.

Jordahl: It's the initial curve I'm talking about. If we take that piece of the railroad track and move it away from the ravine, what happens?

Gardner: It's not just a matter of moving it, what you're going to be, I mean, if you're going to maintain this tangent line, and this tangent line, and try to shorten it, try and move this into the curve here, you've still got to get the same length so you're going to be cutting over into here. Then we've got the same problem. You've got houses here with the front yards that we're going to be getting closer to them by doing that.

Gardner: You just can't pick this piece up here and move it back here.

Jordahl: I mean create a second curve coming this way so it goes up.

Miller: I can put together some different alignment possibilities or what different curves would look like...

Jordahl: What I am proposing is...

Miller: So everybody could take a look at it.

Stutsman: Uh-huh and what impact it would have on property owners along there.

Jordahl: (Inaudible).

Gardner: (Inaudible).

Stutsman: But I think these options had better come to us one way or the other, either we discuss them ahead of time and get our thoughts together or people are going to come in and say did you do this, did you do that and...

Duffy: (Inaudible) then the ones we talked to last night, they aren't too happy that road...(inaudible) so if we benefit one, then we benefit...

Bolkcom: All right, we need one conversation at a time.

Stutsman: Pardon me?

Miller: That property is being sold also.

Stutsman: Which property?

Bolkcom: The one with the ravine.

Miller: We'd look fairly funny if we redid all the curves and then there was a house sitting in the middle of it.

Jordahl: What is the character of that? I remember we had it not too long ago before us and I don't think anyone was proposing putting a house there. That's not a zoned lot. Isn't that kind of outlot or something?

Stutsman: On that (inaudible), or whatever?

Miller: There's, well, I don't think so. There's possibilities of that property owner trying to own some land where our old roadway is and he's talked to us about putting out something there.

Lacina: He doesn't propose storage buildings or other construction as well?

Bolkcom: So Al indicated that he could take a round with designs to give us a couple other things to look at here...

Miller: Just to show you what the impacts would be.

Bolkcom: Right. It's like the ravine or houses.

Jordahl: Right. What happens if we do the minimum thing to not impact the ravine? What happens then?

Miller: That's exactly what I can show you.

Bolkcom: Right.

Miller: I think we'd save some time if I had a pen and paper.

Stutsman: I think those issues are going to come up either now or as we get in down the road, just from my own past experiences up here when these road issues have come up. I think it's just better if we feel we've done a thorough look at all the options.

Bolkcom: OK. This is the time to do it too. We're in the initial stage here.

Duffy: I really think though the impact... It's the folks that live close to the road that we talked to last night, and that road is going to get closer. They're the ones that's going to have the impact of this, all extra traffic and bicycles in the front yard and things like that. So, we just, if we can improve it without...you do it for one, you do it for all type of thing, I don't know. I don't think you can.

Stutsman: Yes, it's going to be trade-offs, there's not going to be one solution that's going to be acceptable to everybody, it's just...

Lacina: (Inaudible) is the old expression.

Stutsman: What are the...

Lacina: Joe had a real good point. Pardon me, but from the stand point of carving up that farm, we really need to be sensitive to the impact on those buildings.

Bolkcom: Well those property owners are very sensitive about this project. They don't want us on their property at all. I think we're talking about splitting their property in half. It would just be really devastating to them.

Stutsman: Who is it?

Bolkcom: The Coles.

Lacina: The Coles.

Miller: Yes, they have no desire to be negotiable about anything that we're talking right now.

Duffy: Do you want to scrap the whole trail concept is that what I am hearing?

Stutsman: No, well, I think that needs to be clarified too.

Miller: That shoulder on that road will be there. (Inaudible).

Bolkcom: It needs a shoulder.

Jordahl: There's no additional right of way being purchased for the trail period.

Stutsman: Yes, I think that needs to be...

Duffy: Yes, I know that because we have to ride the roadway we looked at out there.

Bolkcom: We decided this months, I mean, a long, long time ago, that we would incorporate a new trail into the road surface, not special, not dedicated.

Gardner: Just to reiterate one more time, the road top itself is going to have to be as wide as we are building it, whether the shoulders are paved or not. It would have to be rock, it would be rock otherwise but we are paving the 6 foot of it.

Bolkcom: Again, the trail has nothing to do with the right of way needs or the width of this thing so just so we're clear on that, just so we don't hear from constituents later that somehow this trail is ruining their front yard.

Stutsman: Yes, is making..

Duffy: Well, I don't know if I agree with that either.

Bolkcom: Listen up then.

Duffy: We should have an asphalted concrete road there.

Bolkcom: Listen up about this. This is a good point to be clear on. The trail has no impact on the width of either the top or the shoulder. We're just turning into gravel, versus hard surface.

Lacina: Which could be safer for vehicles if they have a flat tire to get off the edge of the road anyway.

Stutsman: You disagree that, Charlie?

Gardner: And farm equipment.

Duffy: Well I'm saying that...

Bolkcom: A safer road for everybody, for bikes and cars and trucks...

Gardner: With maintenance from us.

Lacina: So our plan of action is that you're going to rough up some proposals on the impacts and then are we going to get back together here or...

Bolkcom: Yes, might as well.

Lacina: When can you do this, Al?

Miller: Well, I'm going to have to do it soon.

Lacina: A week?

Miller: Well, Andy and I, are going to have to put some different curves together for you to look at...

Lacina: Well, a week though, you think, like next Tuesday?

Miller: I have a midterm Thursday night so...

Bolkcom: Poor guy.

Miller: I'll probably have something next week for you to look at.

Bolkcom: OK.

Miller: I just think it'd be faster for all the what if questions to be...

Bolkcom: To be laid out. I agree.

Stutsman: I agree.

Bolkcom: I agree. OK. That might be a field trip too, Board.

Stutsman: I think so too.

Miller: I will try to get something next week. Are we talking about coming here and showing you here or just...

Lacina: Like a week from Thursday?

Bolkcom: Carolyn? Yes, probably not next Tuesday.

Stutsman: Thursday.

Bolkcom: Maybe 2 weeks from today or next...the fifth.

Miller: The more time I can have to put it together...

Bolkcom: How about 2 weeks? Is that too long for you guys?

Gardner: 2 weeks from today? With everything going on right now, I think he could use as much time as you can give him.

Bolkcom: OK, 2 weeks. And maybe we could plan time to go out there. We could at the same time we could take maps and go out there and stand around and rubber neck it.

Jordahl: Invite the public.

Duffy: We could go out...

Lacina: (Inaudible) because they come around those curves fast. When you park on the sides they...

Stutsman: Can I ask a question because it's been brought... Why are we upgrading this road to this?

Duffy: Good question.

Bolkcom: It's... We attacked that question yesterday.

Stutsman: I'm asking these questions anticipating this is questions that are going to come.

Miller: The new alignment you mean or to the width we're going to?

Stutsman: To the new alignment. Why are we even messing with this road?

Gardner: When it first came into the program we looked at this stretch here that had been improved in the early ‘70s and we saw that this has been a problem forever. I mean this is one of our real headaches. Al was talking with one of the highway troopers not long ago and he mentioned that this was one of the roads that is, one that they get a lot of calls on. He said they shut this road down several times in the winter.

Miller: Just because the cars were piled up at the bottom of the hill and they had to shut traffic down on the road because its dangerous.

Lacina: When you drive it you're going to notice, as it was, a 55 gallon barrel and a couple steel posts for sand...

Stutsman: Yes.

Lacina: ...because of the slope and the ice, it is dangerous.

Jordahl: Uh-huh.

Gardner: Yes. What we saw was that we could maybe make some improvements, take care of this problem, take it on out to the intersection of Newport Road at a minimal cost. because we've already got the right-of-way, we've got the grading done.

Stutsman: OK.

Gardner: Instead of just making a little project in here, going ahead and taking it, upgrading it clear out to the corner of Newport Road. So that was the reason initially, it was put into place. I guess I would still say, taking care of this problem is a very high priority.

Bolkcom: Yes. Since I've been on the Board this road's been closed in the winter, it's been indicated. I've heard from constituents on both sides of the road, that live further out, that this is a particular concern, this particular curve. For people on bicycles, and this is a fairly heavily biked area, that's a terrible curve to be on on a bike.

Stutsman: Uh-huh.

Bolkcom: Those people...

Duffy: I thought you... Didn't you say up the grade?

Stutsman: Pardon me.

Duffy: The grade, a lot of people don't understand up the grade, that wonder why we do that. In fact some counties I think just have a layer of asphalt...

Lacina: If we...

Duffy: ...(inaudible) up the grade, so if you run off you wouldn't have a ditch. Is that what you're talking about?

Stutsman: No, I guess I was... maybe I used the wrong term, but I was just...

Duffy: (Inaudible) around that hill.

Stutsman: Why are we realigning...

Gardner: Why are we improving it.

Stutsman:...and why are we improving this whole road, why are we even messing with it, maybe that's the best way to say it.

Duffy: Joe's right (inaudible) we've been talking about that for 6 or 7 years.

Stutsman: Uh-huh. OK.

Miller: The other thing is too, you might want to look at, there's been a lot of concern about some of the roads in that corridor out there with heavy traffic, the development, and the pressure being put on those roads. This really is a collector at most of those roads you're talking about looking at in the future would be a logical step to improve before we improve any of the other ones.

Lacina: Yes.

Bolkcom: All right.

Miller: Newport Road, Sugar Bottom, all those roads in there that we're looking at for possible future projects.

Lacina: Otherwise we can reconstruct those and still have this dangerous bottleneck at this curve.

Miller: Yes. You could send them down Newport or down Sugar Bottom or any of those roads that may be a future project when you've come to this point you still have the problem.

Gardner: Carol just mentioned that when the bridge project went in they were considering this type of project even at that point. That was in the early 70's, I know it was before I started in '77.

Peters: That's why the additional right-of-way is already there because when they bought it for that new bridge they bought enough for future improvements.

Lacina: Good planning.

Stutsman: That one individual that talked about being so close to the road, I didn't catch his name.

Gardner: Was he at the north end?

Stutsman: I think so.

Miller: Sedlacek's.

Gardner: Sedlacek's. We met with them last evening.

Stutsman: Oh, OK. I was thinking, how can we avoid that kind of problem in the future. We tried to didn't we. Up in the North Corridor, I forget that one fellow's name, trying to get him to agree to some of that right of way and he wouldn't do it. I guess to me it just sent to me the message that we need to be more assertive in telling people, this is what's in the plans and it's better to do it now than to have a road in your front yard...

Gardner: We've tried to address that as we can.

Stutsman: ...down the road.

Gardner: When we're aware of future projects that we try to address that during the planning and zoning process.

Jordahl: Uh-huh.

Bolkcom: Yes, we have.

Jordahl: Yes. We should require setback from future road construction projects as part of platting.

Bolkcom: OK. Anything else? Maybe we can talk about this in a couple of weeks again on the 10th. Would the Board want to go out? Maybe we schedule it say, 11 a.m. and we could break and go look at the site and talk about it.

Duffy: I'll be gone on the 10th and I'd rather...

Lacina: I may be.

Duffy:...have it some other day.

Stutsman: 10th.

Lacina: Could we take it back one more week? Could we go to...

Bolkcom: The 17th we have an informal and formal...

Lacina: Is that too far?

Bolkcom: ...because of the...

Lacina: OK.

Bolkcom: ...because of ISAC that week. It could be kind of a crazy day. I don't know what's on the...

Jordahl: The 10th we have Elected Officials and Department Heads too.

Lacina: Could we do it on the 12th?

Stutsman: Doing evaluations...

Lacina: We need to give that a little more time.

Jordahl: Yes. We've got evaluations in the morning.

Lacina: Oh, OK.

Bolkcom: We have a night meeting on the 12th.

Jordahl: (Inaudible) that meeting.

Stutsman: Unless we go out at 4 or something like that.

Jordahl: 12th might work, afternoon.

Gardner: Or we can shoot for next Thursday if you'd rather. That's another option.

Lacina: No, that's too...

Stutsman: How's the...

Bolkcom: The Board has evaluations Thursday.

Peters: (Inaudible) next Thursday...

Jordahl: Yes, we're going to be working on evaluations.

Miller: We got (inaudible).

Bolkcom: We should keep rolling on this. We should try and set a time in the next 2 weeks to make...

Stutsman: How about 4 o'clock on the 12th? We have a Board meeting at 5:30.

Bolkcom: All right.

Lacina: OK. Sounds good. Does that work Al, 4 o'clock the 12th?

Gardner: When is that?

Bolkcom: It's a Thursday.

Lacina: We have a night meeting that night.

Miller: We have a (inaudible) classes (inaudible).

Bolkcom: We have a meeting at 5:30. OK.

Stutsman: Oh, so that will... OK.

Bolkcom: Is that enough time, Board? If we go... Is the Board wanting to go out to the site at that point?

Jordahl: Yes.

Lacina: I've already been.

Duffy: I go there sometimes.

Peters: You're going to be getting into darkness (inaudible).

Bolkcom: I know that's what I'm wondering about.

Stutsman: Oh, yes.

Duffy: Yes, we are.

Jordahl: A little earlier?

Lacina: I'm not interested in a formal out there. It is dangerous on the curve and that, I think just...

Bolkcom: Well we wouldn't park right on the curve. We could get off the road to...

Lacina: You can't really get off the... OK, whatever you think.

Jordahl: We could go down in the ravine.

Lacina: There you go.

Bolkcom: We can go into somebody's driveway probably.

Jordahl: I've...

Bolkcom: Let's settle when we're going to meet before we move off this. Do you want... The first question is, do you want to go out there or not. If you don't want to go out there we can meet at...

Jordahl: 3 o'clock...

Bolkcom: ...4 o'clock.

Jordahl: ...on Thursday the 12th?

Lacina: 4 o'clock.

Duffy: I don't have to go out there, I go by there everyday.

Bolkcom: Who wants to go out there with staff and look at this?

Stutsman: I want to go out there and look at it.

Jordahl: Yes.

Bolkcom: All right. There are 3 that want to do that.

Lacina: OK.

Bolkcom: So 3 o'clock on the 12th, give us enough light, go out there for an hour or something.

Stutsman: All right.

Bolkcom: Is that OK?

Jordahl: Uh-huh.

Bolkcom: All right. Final question on this?

Jordahl: Tangential question, where would... I'd like you to think about as you're looking at this, where an east/west collector might go, intersecting this. It'll be parallel that would take some of the pressure off that. Because I noticed in looking at the traffic counts yesterday, Linder Road's got like 400 cars a day going down it. Something that would go east/west here over to Dubuque Street would take a lot of pressure off of Linder.

Bolkcom: All right. Let's talk about that later on at one if we... under the road, if you want to bring that up (inaudible)...

Jordahl: Yes. I intend to.

Bolkcom: ...under the discussion of the 5 Year Road Plan we can do that. All right.

Lacina: I have no problem (inaudible).

Bolkcom: OK. We'll see you in a couple weeks.

Miller: OK.

Bolkcom: We'll probably see you before then.

Miller: A couple hours.

Bolkcom: Yes. We'll see you at one o'clock.

Jordahl: An hour and a half.

Bolkcom: On this item.

Lacina: Yes.

Gardner: Thank you.

Stutsman: Thank you.

(Continued in Part 4)