Bolkcom: It's 11:30. It is also back to item b, 4b, business from the Board of Supervisors discussion regarding Board of Supervisors office hours. This has been on (inaudible) it's been kind of kicked around for a little while. I'll maybe just jump into it here. Last week we've... a staff liaison had, I guess, our second... Was it our... Our second meeting with staff, I believe it was our second meeting, Steve and I met with Carolyn, Jo Hogarty, Deana, and Lora, just talked about a number of things including this item. Talked about how we might pursue the possibility of keeping our office open one additional hour between 4 and 5 p.m. Monday through Friday. We talked about that at that point and kind of got some feedback from staff which I think, indicated ability to do this starting on or about November 2nd. It's on today just to check in with the Board and talk about that. One additional thing that was talked about, at that meeting, was going to Jo Hogarty and discussing with her whether or not she wanted to go from 37 1/2 to 40 hours a week, in order to assist us in covering that additional hour a day.

Lacina: She'd be here until 4:30.

Bolkcom: She'd be here from 4 to 4:30, essentially.

Lacina: Yes.

Bolkcom: So that's the conversation that's taken place thus far and it's on today just to see what people are thinking about.

Duffy: Joe, can I have a little input on this? I think...

Bolkcom: Yes, you sure can.

Duffy: ...that there are, right here in this Administration Building, some of the departments are starting at 7:30. I don't have anything wrong... that's what my recommendation would be, 7:30 instead of 4 to 5.

Bolkcom: All right.

Duffy: Because I noticed this morning there were several calls in the first half hour, when is the time of this agenda going to come up, things like that. I think maybe it'd be a lot better to... Especially with the time the way it is now, but...

Bolkcom: Sure.

Lacina: Jo can not staff the office at 7:30 in the morning because of her requirements with her kids, getting them to school in the morning because I asked her. She will not be able...

Duffy: She doesn't have to be here...

Lacina: ...to be here in the morning.

Duffy: ...but Deana probably could.

Bolkcom: All right.

Stutsman: So are you suggesting 7:30 to what time, Charlie?

Duffy: I'd say 7:30 to 4 o'clock that gives you other... So that'd be the 40 hours.

Bolkcom: All right. Other thoughts?

Jordahl: I've thrown out, at the discussion of the Administrative Bargaining Unit, this question of going to 40 hours and of extending office hours, (inaudible) get a reaction to that. The notion as it was discussed in a few different ways. I suggested that we might sweeten the idea beyond the additional pay that a person would get for the 40 hours instead of 37 1/2, that we might also grant an hour for lunch instead of half an hour. That then would take us to 5 rather than to 4:30. It would... with the same cost. So we wouldn't be talking about just getting halfway there, we'd be talking about getting all the way there. One of the responses to that, there were 2 interesting responses to that. The Auditor's representative said that the pressure of people coming in and wanting our offices to be open longer wasn't particularly between 4 and 5, but primarily between 5 and 6. So in order to really get the bang for the buck we'd have to go an extra hour beyond that. Another response was more similar to what you're saying Charlie, that people would be more willing to give up time from 7 to 8 than they would from 4 to 5. So a suggestion was made that we extend office hours early rather than late. This would have the same effect that going open to 6 would, in that, we would be open to hours outside of the regular business hours that other people are working. Making us available to the public, but doing so at a time when there's less pressure of after school activities, less pressure of people staying late at child care, and so forth. There are some different approaches to this that are possible besides just staying open until 5 o'clock. The earlier version of which, and again with Charlie, might be a better service to the public.

Bolkcom: But you still have... The concurrent problem of people, picking people up from daycare, you have people being dropped off for daycare, you have families getting kids ready for school, packing lunches, doing breakfast. I don't know that 7 to 8 o'clock in the morning is a time when people are sitting around, lounging and watching TV. They're busy then as well.

Jordahl: Yes. There they are.

Stutsman: I can remember my daycare days when I was picking up my son from daycare, you were not a minute late past 5 o'clock. For the threat of...

Lacina: They get bent out of shape.

Stutsman: I as afraid my son would be sitting on the curb some night if I got there. Whereas in the morning you do have a little bit more flexibility. That's not... I can understand that argument. People saying, I'd rather take a half an hour in the morning to run a few errands then do it with the pressure of knowing I have to be at the daycare and pick up my child.

Jordahl: Especially from the perspective of the general public using our offices. It would probably be easier for a person to start out a little earlier on their day as opposed to requesting time off from work to get here before we closed at 5. We would actually be enabling members of the public to use our services at a time when they're not normally working. I think it would be... There are 2 questions, there's convenience to our staff and there's convenience to the public which is the reason for doing the thing in the first place. That seem to militate for being open at some time outside of the 8 to 5 hours.

Peters: 8 to 4. (Inaudible).

Jordahl: We're proposing 8 to 5 I guess. I'm suggesting maybe 7 to 4 would have less impact on our staff than 8 to 5 and be more of a benefit to the public than 8 to 5.

Lacina: We know part of our staff can be here until 4:30, but can not be here earlier than 8.

Bolkcom: Right. I think for our office 8 to 5 is a more reasonable solution.

Duffy: I don't think...

Bolkcom: I think with all due... I think there are some people... I don't know how many, some people probably do run errands between 7 and 8 o'clock in the morning, it's not something I'm doing on a very regular basis. In terms, of like going to get my license plates, I don't think about jumping out of bed and running down and doing that at 7:15 in the morning. But I'm sure there would be some... Charlie would (inaudible) that time of day.

Lacina: There are...

Stutsman: Yes. Then again...

Bolkcom: There are people that do do that.

Stutsman: ...it's personal preference.

Lacina: I was going to call...

Duffy: (Inaudible) at 7:30 in the morning the kids are off and gone on the school bus. I don't know why some people don't like to get up in the morning, but I think that's... if we're going to do it...

Stutsman: Nothing personal, Charlie.

Bolkcom: Most people... Most public offices are open 8 to 5.

Duffy: But still this is so...

Bolkcom: We're different.

Lacina: (Inaudible) would call me at 5:30, but we weren't going to open the office up to...

Bolkcom: But most public offices are open 8 to 5.

Duffy: But still this is so...

Bolkcom: We're different.

Lacina: Well nobody would call me at 5:30, that we weren't going to open the office up...(Inaudible).

Duffy: ...accessibility to the public and I can probably sneak this in here under the Board of Supervisors office but I think the big problem up here is some departments don't have enough help. I see lines in the 2 departments and (inaudible) in them. The people were here but they aren't enough help to take care of the situation.

Bolkcom: Well part of staying open an extra hour may be flex time. People don't have to crunch to come in at this time. There's a little bit more time (inaudible)...

Duffy: I don't think so, Joe.

Bolkcom: ...I think that would maybe eliminate some of the major peaks but there will probably still be people standing in line even with the additional hour of being open.

Jordahl: Well to argue...

Duffy: That's the problem.

Jordahl: To argue on the side of being open until 5, people, I think, are not objecting to taking an hour off from work, to leave a little early to go get their license plates as long as they find the office that they're going to open. I think for me, the frustration would be taking an hour off from work, coming down here and finding it was closed. Whether that's the Board of Supervisors or whoever else, I don't mean to pick on license plates, that's just an example but going to do some business with the County, I don't care what it is, and finding the office closed at 4 o'clock...

Stutsman: When I am sitting here thinking about this, I understand that we need to take the lead in all this stuff but I wonder if we shouldn't have this discussion first with the whole building doing it. I think we are going to aggravate the problem you are talking about. If one office stays open until 5 and the others don't...because I know how upset people get when they come down here thinking, this big hoopla about the Board of Supervisors staying open until 5 and I came down here to get my license plates, well I can't get it at the Board of Supervisors Office. I need to get it at the Treasurer's Office. So I wonder if it's better just to do this for the whole building instead of one office here. I know you can argue the Auditors is open until 5 but I think part of the reason people get upset is because they think the Auditors open until 6, then every other office in here is.

Lacina: Well and the other thing you want to justify is the expense of the tax dollars so you may want to consider a pilot project. You may try a time period where you track how many calls we get 7:30 in the morning until 8 and then what is the demand in the evening and decide what is the best time. But I think you are probably right when the new Treasurer comes in, he's probably going to be open to some ideas of serving the public and you may want to sit down and try to coordinate the entire building. Do a study and if it's not justified, because we have been criticized that there are some times when, can you afford to have 3 people sitting there with no customers. But if we can document the fact that, yes, the phone rings, we're doing this and this and this, we can justify the expense.

Stutsman: This is such a dilemma because we need to be open longer but I just don't want to spend anymore money on it. I think about the discussion with space needs. I think every department is going to come in with staff increases and I just don't know if we can afford to do all this stuff.

Bolkcom: That's a good question. We could conceivably do without through flextime and just rearranging peoples' schedules. We did talk about this earlier and asked the building, and you'll recall that meeting. People said don't do it. We don't want to change our hours. We want to be open 8 to 4. That's what we were hired for. It's not going to be the kind of change that people are going to gravitate to probably. I think we do need to take the lead on it. Whether we wait and try to convince everybody at the same time or move ahead... I'm for moving ahead to set an example and to tell people that we're moving towards providing more services that extra hour. I'm an advocate for 8 to 5. Do a modest improvement, one hour, and set the tone. I don't think... And we all know that very selected officials in this building are going to do whatever they want to do. They're not necessarily going to say oh the Board of Supervisors is asking us to stay open until 5, we're going to stay open until 5. The other offices, we do have the ability to develop a plan and some, get the input of Zoning or Information Services or whatever other departments are in this building, that we have say so.

Jordahl: Physical Plant.

Bolkcom: That we're involved with overseeing, that we could say to those departments we would like you, in the next 2 months to develop some sort of plan to do this.

Duffy: I don't think we have to run the whole shebang, Joe.

Jordahl: We do.

Bolkcom: I think adding an hour would get us up to speed with a number of other public entities in this town and would be a huge benefit. We will be increasing the amount of service we're providing to the public. I think it's worth bearing whatever very marginal costs are involved to do that.

Duffy: As far as Supervisors, we don't have any time frame because you're called at home or at work.

Bolkcom: Wherever you go... We're here many times after 4 o'clock.

Duffy: Yes, and I don't see any phone calls.

Bolkcom: The phone is ringing, the phone is ringing and people know we're closed at 4. But people just seem to want to call us after 4.

Duffy: I've been doing a little research and there's about, at that hour, about 2 phone calls and a couple times they were these folks calling here.

Bolkcom: I just think...

Duffy: When you go down, again and then I'm going to shut up, and like you wait in line, you're going to get your license plates. There's not enough people, you were inside the building and at 4 o'clock it's closed. You were here. If they had enough employees... I thought, in the future, this will be done on computers but still, you see what I mean, it's not the idea of can't getting off to get the license plates, things like that or pay the taxes, it's just that there aren't enough people.

Jordahl: Of course that problem would also be addressed by the expectations of the public. They may come at quarter to 4, but their expectations is that they will be able to do their business before the end of the day. I think the idea of the end of the day is 5 o'clock. There's sort of this... I think we flatter ourselves that we think that everyone's aware of when County government closes. People are aware that the end of the day is 5 o'clock and that's what the normal expectation is going to be. I think it would be only responsible of us to do that. We should, as they say, put your money where your mouth is, I think we should lead on this one.

Stutsman: But then again, I get back to the money thing. I'm thinking out loud on this too, trying to sort through my thoughts on this. I think of all the offices in this building, I would venture to guess, that if you did a poll of the tax payers and ranked which offices they thought were the most important to stay open, I would venture to guess, the Board of Supervisors probably would be at the bottom of that list. So then I'm thinking, OK, not that we're not...

Jordahl: So much for flattering ourselves, I was going to say.

Bolkcom: Let's close at 3. I mean, the more we're here, the more damage we're doing.

Stutsman: So I'm trying to weigh, is it worth the extra costs to keep this office open, from the tax dollars perspective, Is it worth the $2,000 to keep this office open or would I rather have that $2,000 go to keep the Treasurer's Office open or the Recorder's Office open? I know the argument can be made about we have to lead but all this costs money.

Bolkcom: More service... I think the constituents are willing to pay for more and good services.

Jordahl: Uh-huh.

Bolkcom: I don't think this is a tough sale. If the people that are most involved in managing the County can't stay here, can't keep their office open until 5, there's probably a few management decisions that might happen between 4 and 5 if our office is open.

Stutsman: Hopefully not.

Bolkcom: I guess I see... I think we...

Stutsman: I'm saying in public meetings, we're supposed to make those management decisions during public meetings.

Bolkcom: But we're talking through a lot of issues on the phone and with a lot of different people. I just see a...

Stutsman: I don't quit at 4 o'clock everyday either.

Bolkcom: But our office does.

Lacina: See Sally's got a valid point. If you think about it, you're Auditor is going to stay but your other elected officials are going to leave. That would be 3 Supervisors, you're going to have 2 new Supervisors. You're going to have a new Treasurer, you're going to have a new Recorder...You probably do need to sit down and coordinate the building. I could see people, you're right, really being upset... Come down here, you're open until 5, I want my license plate.

Bolkcom: Well that happens now. It has been happening for 20 years.

Lacina: But as I'm saying...

Bolkcom: Hundreds of people...

Lacina: If you want to lead, instead of just going ha, showed you... And the other factor is cost. Thinking about the workforce, I don't think the Treasurer is going to be able to do flex hours because they are busy all the time. There is going to be a cost to keep that office open, and that, I would think, you're going to need to work with Kriz as a priority. Now he has said publicly that he's looking at some things to include peak times, maybe being open in the evening. Are you prepared to step up and cover that cost?

Jordahl: The Treasurer's staff takes lunch breaks, don't they?

Lacina: Well I'm not going to second guess what they are doing. What I'm saying is he does want to do some innovative things on hours and, no, you're not going to be able to cover it at the existing budget because you do have bargaining units and...

Bolkcom: If you were to survey the people standing in line down there, they'd say get some more help.

Duffy: Yes, I agree with them.

Bolkcom: I think.

Lacina: Well yes, or stay open later. The other fact is that everybody waits until the last 3 days of the month for licenses, which is a serious problem.

Duffy: Steve, the people were there and there's not enough help. I agree with Sally.

Bolkcom: The bigger policy question is, as an organization are we committed to the question of trying to stay open regular business hours and that would be, I would argue, 8 to 5. If we are, it isn't going to happen overnight organizationally, across the board. But I think we lead by example, we make a commitment in this office and send a signal that this Board thinks this institution ought to provide services normal working hours and most businesses are open... That, I think, is what this is about.

Lacina: Uh-huh.

Bolkcom: If we say yes to that, I think that us staying open is a minor step towards that. It's the first step towards it. If we say no, we don't need to change anything. This can just go away.

Lacina: It certainly will increase our number of hours that we can work on the budget, because if we are here until 5, we can put a lot more things on for employee evaluations. If we're going to be here until 5 then we need to set the example. We need to be here until 5. Now the other thing that you might consider is starting at a point mid-November doing a pilot project, figuring out a way of tracking the customers. Are we really getting phone calls that are relevant to the office or is it do you have the number for the Auditor or something that we are just a reference. In which case, voice mail is probably going to do us just as much good.

Jordahl: I disagree with the idea of a pilot project on the grounds that we have a question of public education and advertising and so forth to do... If the building is going to be open until 5, a lot of people do know that the building is only open until 4, most offices, in order to make this work, we're going to not just be open but we're going to have to tell people we're open so that people will come in. You can't measure people without telling them that we're open and you can't tell them unless it's true. It's a catch 22. I think the only way to make this work is to do it.

Lacina: Well and that gives weight to sitting down and doing it with all the elected officials in the departments and coordinate. I guess that's what (inaudible).

Stutsman: Yes, I guess maybe that's... I'm thinking now what am I arguing against here... I guess maybe it's the piecemeal approach to this and if we really are going to get the benefit of the costs that this is going to cause or entail. I...

Bolkcom: We put this on for the department head meeting on the 10th.

Duffy: I think we better wait before we vote on it.

Stutsman: With the elected officials...

Bolkcom: No, with everybody.

Lacina: (Inaudible) with other elected officials. I think if (inaudible) is going to be a player in this, we need to hear from him.

Stutsman: Who?

Lacina: After the elections November third, we need to hear from the Recorder and the Treasurer.

Stutsman: Well the Recorder too.

Bolkcom: The Recorder is already saying she wants to stay open until 5 or 6.

Lacina: Well let's bring them in and talk about it.

Stutsman: Is that both candidates are saying that or is that...

Bolkcom: Yes.

Stutsman: OK. I hadn't heard from the candidates.

Bolkcom: But I guess I don't, that's great they can do that, but let's recall they are free to whatever they want.

Lacina: Well no, actually there's a dollar sign that they've got to come to us to get.

Bolkcom: No, but they are free to do what they are doing now. Expanding hours is going to take a little bit of energy and convincing of staff across the board.

Stutsman: Yes and maybe that's what... It sounds like we need to be more planful about this. I don't know what this is going to cost us. There again, I support it but what I think about everything else that we've got coming out, that we're going to have to be responsible for in light of a possible budget freeze... I guess I need to... I didn't know by keeping this office open we were going to incur cost with that. I thought we were going to do it flextime so that was a surprise to me. I'm thinking with the same thing, we all talk about it. Let's do, well how much is this going to cost to do this. Maybe we need to hear from the other elected officials.

Bolkcom: Maybe we should not increase Jo's hours and we'll just do it on flextime. I think we can do that if cost is really the issue in this office.

Stutsman: For me it's an issue.

Bolkcom: We could probably eliminate that issue but the other thing that people talk about in this office is that we don't have enough help.

Stutsman: Oh.

Bolkcom: Right?

Jordahl: Yes.

Bolkcom: We don't have enough help. Deana is going to start on budgets shortly. Somebody might argue that having Jo and extra half hour answering phones is a much more effective use of Deana's time. Somebody might argue that.

Jordahl: Uh huh. I might.

Bolkcom: But I think we could do this, if cost is the primary issue, to get a third vote to do this. We could just do it with our existing staff and not increase Jo. I'd be OK with that too.

Duffy: I don't think 2 Supervisors are leaving should make this decision. We can talk about it but I don't think...

Bolkcom: We're still on the Board, Charlie.

Jordahl: Well they're... My god.

Lacina: Deana is specialized in terms of the budget. If we get a call, something on the agenda, it needs to go to Jo. If it's health insurance, it needs to go to Carol. Deana can't answer or Jo, the insurance pool. We're specialized so that one of them is out of the office flexed, if we get a question in that area, we're done... It's kind of like throwing a dart.

Jordahl: Well I think the flexing needs to occur in the middle of the day, not at the ends of the day, if possible, for exactly that reason. So that if a person... If a call comes for someone who's not here because they are away at lunch, then they can come back and answer the question.

Lacina: Which is what the City proposed we do with SEATS. They wanted us to have people have work 2-3 hours in the morning, then lay them off, then work a couple hours in the evening.

Jordahl: Not lay them off, no. Give them a lunch break.

Lacina: Well that sounds good but you're impacting your employees. You're got to be considerate to them.

Jordahl: Here's an hour for lunch. That's not inconsiderate.

Lacina: Keep in mind the proposal for the expansion of hours is about a 14-16% increase in exposure time versus we have one employee we're going to take from 37 and one half to 40 hours. We're really flexing the blazes out of the remaining staff. Jo's picking up 3 hours to spread over the 5 days. Numbers are not right. Plus, the fact that we are specialized in those areas. However, I think Sally had a very valid point that we're going to see 4 new elected officials up here after the first and after the election, I think, we ought to invite them in and say from a budget standpoint and everything, what are your plans? We need to know financially how to prepare for this. There will be some costs in the other office for these extended hours.

Bolkcom: Yes, but new people aren't going to have a clue of what's going on...

Duffy: Well they should though.

Bolkcom: In terms of making radical changes. This, as you recall, the meeting we had in this room, Steve...when the room filled up and people yelled at us about even thinking about office hours. We're not...this was in the past but this is a substantial change in our organization to encourage, have the Board of Supervisors encourage, 90% of the offices that aren't open past 4 o'clock now to stay open that extra hour. I would include the Board of Health and Conservation in this idea as well.

Duffy: You can't tell them that.

Jordahl: We can encourage them to do anything.

Bolkcom: We would encourage them. We are only going to get there if the Board says this is a goal. We want to get there. Help us get there. Instead of going out and saying, well what do you think? Do you think you can do it? What's this? Sure there's a little bit of additional cost and we ought to be as frugal as possible getting to it. But I don't think if it's a goal to get to it, by walking in and saying, what do you think, you think this... We're going to have the same kind of reactions. Bad idea, can't do it, really like to be off at 4, blah, blah, blah. I think we've got to make a stronger statement up front if we are going to get it done. There might not be the interest to get it done. That's the question. Do you want to do it or not? I still think we are going to get there. We're just not going to say...

Duffy: Just wait until after elections.

Jordahl: We had a salary survey just recently, we're very proud of.

Duffy: Are you going to keep your office open in Des Moines, Joe?

Jordahl: We've just finished our salary survey and we are very proud of what we've done. Aren't we?

Stutsman: Yes.

Jordahl: Anybody else proud of the salary survey or is it just me?

Stutsman: No. OK.

Jordahl: As part of the implementation of the salary survey, we required that if people wanted to benefit from that, and if they were still at 37 and one half hours, then they were going to go to 40. Am I wrong in my memory in that?

Lacina: How many people did that affect? Those people were putting in 50, 60... The 7 people that we talked to about that, like for example, Pat with the Physical Plant. If he gets a call at 10:00 at night, he's over at that jail working on it. That's not a fair...

Jordahl: What's not fair? We're saying we put money, a lot of money, into the salary survey, and as part of that, we asked for 40 hours. Now, we've talked to Jo about going to 40 hours...

Stutsman: She's not in the salary survey.

Jordahl: No. I'm saying that's the salary survey. Now we've talked to Jo about this. I've mentioned this in the negotiations with the Union that it's something we were thinking about and we wanted to get their feedback on it. There was some conversation taking place about it. The Board needs to have this conversation about where we want to be in union contract negotiations. Is this something the Board...

Lacina: The Board of Supervisors is putting that on the table.

Jordahl: No, I'm saying that we are talking about this and wanted to get their feedback about it.

Lacina: We?

Bolkcom: The Board of Supervisors.

Jordahl: The Board of Supervisors, Steve.

Lacina: Which of the bargaining unit and put this...

Bolkcom: We've talked about expanding office hours for a months. Jonathan is indicating that...

Lacina: I want to know what happened at the negotiations.

Bolkcom: He indicated that the Board is having a conversation about trying to stay open longer and got some feedback about it. That's what he did, which is appropriate.

Lacina: OK. OK.

Jordahl: It's not, yes, it's wasn't entered as part of our bargaining policy.

Bolkcom: That's what I heard.

Lacina: What I heard was different as far as increasing the bargaining unit without the rest of us discussing that.

Bolkcom: That's what I heard. No, he was just giving people a heads up that the Board was talking about it.

Duffy: What are we going to do with the people in our office that don't even take their full half hour for lunch?

Bolkcom: What a minute.

Jordahl: Yes, I would like to finish. So the question of how much this is going to cost is a legitimate one. I think that question has been asked and answered for this office and that's a small cost. Did I hear $2,000?

Bolkcom: Approximately.

Jordahl: That's not a big cost for an office to be open an extra hour every single day that it's open all year long.

Stutsman: It would be open an extra half hour that would take Jo to 4:30.

Lacina: Right. The costs only go up to...

Jordahl: Right. That additional hour, that additional half hour of pay, would do that. If instead of a half hour lunch, she had an hour lunch, that additional half hour of lunch would be free to us and would extend the day for that full hour.

Lacina: She's also asked the privilege of backing out of this if it doesn't work. So when we start messing with her lunch hour we could lose that extension.

Bolkcom: Yes, we won't mess with Jo's lunch hour, I would argue. But by giving us... We could do this without Jo taking an extra half hour. Deana is going to be here until 5 and Carolyn is going to be here. We can do that. It just helps us do it a little bit more modestly. If every office could stay open an extra hour for $2,000, it would be a hell of an investment.

Jordahl: It would be a huge benefit to the public.

Duffy: I don't think it would be.

Bolkcom: If we can do it for $2,000, why can't other people? We need to figure that out.

Lacina: (Inaudible). You're looking at 3 employees to staff it...

Bolkcom: We need to figure that out.

Lacina: You're saying you expect the Treasurer's Office plus 20 employees to do it for $2,000?

Bolkcom: No. No.

Jordahl: That's the other part of this sentence I'm trying to finish here.

Bolkcom: I'm going to find out. It's projected to cost a million dollars, Steve. I don't think it will cost a million to stay open an hour.

Lacina: If you calculate the... OK, if you want to look at all departments and you want to consider that one hour as far as costs...

Bolkcom: No, I don't think we are saying that. We're saying to departments, like the Board of Supervisors, we met with our staff and said how can we do this. They said here's how we can do it. They've made this recommendation. We say that to every department. How can you do it as cheaply as possible. to provide some level of service that people would find acceptable?

Lacina: The Treasurer did point out that if you want to flex their hours you can grow that line right on out the door. If you pull someone off the counter to flex them, whom? One less person to meet them. Flex will work in light mode situations but if you have every employee at the counter meeting them and you start flexing, it backfires.

Jordahl: What happens over lunch?

Lacina: A lot of people get off work and come down here.

Jordahl: That's right and what happens to the Treasurer's employees? Do they eat lunch?

Lacina: That's not when you extend those office hours. You have them eat early. You have them eat late. But those are...

Jordahl: Right, and that's not when you flex those hours. You have them eat early. You have them eat late.

Bolkcom: I would defer to the Treasurer to give us advice on that, not us. We don't know about that.

Duffy: Yes, we shouldn't be talking about the Treasurer. We're talking about our own office and I've seen Carol, all 3, Deana and Jo, work right through the noon hour. Many times they've eaten their lunch up here, a sandwich or something like that and stay right through the noon hour and they don't charge us.

Lacina: I've seen them work until 5 o'clock, shut the doors so they can get their work done so there was a reason to put in the extra hour.

Duffy: Well, yes..

Bolkcom: OK, how do you want to conclude this? It's noon and it's lunch hour and we have to be back at one.

Duffy: I think we ought to wait until after lunch.

Lacina: I think after the third of November, you need to invite the elected officials in and set down and do some planning. That's my suggestion.

Stutsman: Either that or we could start this the first of November. Do it at flex time and see how it goes.

Lacina: Do a pilot and track it.

Duffy: What will the hours be?

Bolkcom: And do this meeting. I think that meeting is essential.

Lacina: I think that meeting...

Jordahl: Oh, the meeting is good. Definitely, good.

Duffy: In other words, flextime is from 8 to 5 o'clock instead of 7:30 to... Well I won't be leave before that but I don't know if I am going to vote for it.

Bolkcom: So Sally, you're saying go ahead in early November. Try to... We can do it. Any decision we make that we see as a disaster, we can reverse. Right? If we start and...

Duffy: You always get your own way, don't you?

Bolkcom: If we don't like it, we can change it. I'd be thinking we could make it work, myself, but making a decision to stay open until 5, this Board, other Boards could change that decision.

Lacina: We'll track it.

Jordahl: It allows us to enter the discussion with the department heads and elected officials on the 10th on a whole different foot because we can say we have started this.

Stutsman: OK. I want to clarify we. Are we going to have a schedule so that we, meaning the 5 of us, stay here until 5 o'clock?

Jordahl: We aren't here now until 4 o'clock.

Bolkcom: We could certainly work towards that. I counted up just in the last 30 days that I was in meetings between 4 and 5 o'clock 8 days. A number of them... I just think we do have some conflicts with this job. If we're going to figure out a way to answer the phones between 4 and 5, it's going to take away from other county business.

Duffy: In other words, you're telling me this, Joe... That I can't do what I've been doing? I get it out around this county?

Jordahl: You can do whatever you want.

Duffy: (Inaudible) times like last night a road at 4 o'clock or would you rather have me sitting here answering phone waiting for someone to call?

Jordahl: I have a Sally suggestion.

Stutsman: Thanks a lot.

Jordahl: Sally is the one who said you should stay here between 4 and 5.

Lacina: Somebody can be rescheduled.

Bolkcom: We agree on that point.

Lacina: (Inaudible). It can be kicked back and meet at 5. I mean there are a few things like that but there are also some things that are simply going to be hard. Charlie and I in Des Moines tomorrow, we may be in Des Moines on the 10th.

Bolkcom: Get back by 4.

Stutsman: Yes, so you can answer phones.

Jordahl: I don't know why, why does it becomes an issue for us to be here between 4 and 5 predictably, when we're not predictably here between any other given hours of the day.

Stutsman: The only reason I say that is because I always feel that if I'm going to ask staff to do something that we should be...

Bolkcom: I agree.

Jordahl: But they are being asked to be here until 4. We're not.

Lacina: But they don't have the committee meetings and the things in the evening and all of the other things...

Jordahl: Exactly, so I'm saying... What I would say by compromise between these 2 positions... Because I think Sally makes a valid point to what is our commitment...I think the answer for us is what is our predictability? When can the public know they can find us here and maybe something like office hours for the members on the Board of Supervisors would be the place to be on that, to publish them. Covering the office, definitely, you'll be able to get a supervisor at time certain this... Steve is covering this day, Charlie is covering it this day and I'm covering this day... To have predictable office hours. That's not a bad idea.

Duffy: That isn't going to work because usually when they call up they want certain people, like someone might want Joe, Charlie (inaudible). I want to talk to Joe.

Bolkcom: Sure, they can do that

Jordahl: But there's also people who call and want any a supervisor, a supervisor.

Lacina: The chair should be here.

Bolkcom: The chair should be here until 5 every day.

Stutsman: Chained to his desk...

Bolkcom: Maybe we should bring that back. I think that's a great idea.

Lacina: The 5 Supervisors each sit down and figure out what meetings we've got and each try to take a day.

Jordahl: Then not schedule meetings into that time. Have a really sacred... Say I'm sorry I really can't go to that meeting because I have office hours.

Stutsman: Or if you do have a meeting you say, Jonathan, I've got a meeting, will you cover for me?

Jordahl: Will you cover the office hours for me? That's right.

Stutsman: Then I'll cover for you...

Lacina: Now there will be some like MH/MR, when we're all 5 expected to be there, we'll just have to reschedule.

Bolkcom: We'll make it Friday from 4 to 5.

Jordahl: I'm not saying we cover 40 hours with a Supervisor in the office. I'm saying we have a block of predictable office hours.

Bolkcom: OK. Let's bring that back around as another item some day.

Lacina: Everybody needs to submit the schedule for the committee meetings and that though to be able to put into a time table though.

Jordahl: It would have to be readdressed. Each time we did committee assignments, we'd have to do a new survey of who could cover the time. But it would be nice if the time were the same each day so it was like 1 to 2 in the afternoon, or like 1 to 3.

Bolkcom: We just have to have one day a week from 2 to 4, whatever the time is, a set day. We just pay attention to each other's schedule and say who's covering this week? We make sure someone is there.

Duffy: Well how about in the morning when you get the phone calls? You're losing out.

Jordahl: It would be morning. (Inaudible). The only reason I didn't say mornings is because of our meetings.

Bolkcom: We're covering it all, Charlie. That's why having a 5 member Board is such a good thing.

Duffy: You are trying to cover it all and you are going to Des Moines and getting a job that's about 3 and one half months with a big fat wage...

Lacina: Well that's irrelevant.

Jordahl: Wage cut, I think.

Bolkcom: Charlie, how do you really feel about this?

Duffy: You suggest you stay open 6 months out of the year.

Bolkcom: I'm going to be working 60 to 80 hours a week for those 4 months. Then I'll call you up tell you what I'm doing.

Lacina: Let's continue at 1:00.

Bolkcom: We are going to do that. Let me try to summarize where we're at. Charlie is going to cover the office between 7 and 8 and we're going to try to stay open... I'm kidding, I'm kidding about that... Between 4 and 5 starting next week, the 2nd and see how it goes, and we're there. We'll talk about it with other people as time goes on, when the election is over and on the 10th with department heads.

Lacina: Now, how are we going to meaningfully track this? So when we have the department head meeting and they say, oh, how may calls did you get between 4 and 5?" We need some way of...

Bolkcom: I don't think we are going to see a major change in the first 5 working days when we report the following...

Jordahl: Well we've to publicize it.

Bolkcom: Yes, we need to let people know we're open...

Jordahl: We get...

Bolkcom: That's a good try.

Duffy: You and Jonathan have tried this when you were at meetings all around the County...

Bolkcom: Everybody that calls between 4 and 5...

Duffy: ...and nobody showed up. Remember?

Bolkcom: Everybody that calls between 4 and 5 we'll ask us...

Jordahl: Not the case that nobody showed up, first of all.

Bolkcom: ...whether they like (inaudible).

Duffy: We have tried this in the North Corridor Plan.

Lacina: Wrong numbers don't count.

Bolkcom: That's not on... Charlie, that's not on the agenda.

Duffy: Yes. But there's...

Bolkcom: We're going to have to move on now.

Duffy: ...14 people that stayed the length of the time.

(Continued in Part 5)