Bolkcom stated that County Engineer Mike Gardner and Assistant County Engineer Al Miller were present to talk about Hwy 965 Extension, although they would listen to their thoughts on the sales tax too. Lacina asked if everyone had a copy of the proposal. Stutsman said they weren't prepared to talk about the sales tax. Bolkcom asked if they had a proposal. Gardner said they just came in to answer any questions the Board had. Lacina said Gardner provided them with copies of the October minutes from the Highway 965 Extension Committee and a recommendation. Jordahl said the big problem was financing. He stated when the discussed it previously there was a fair degree of agreement that going with the 965 extension made more sense than paving Deer Creek Road. Jordahl stated they know that Coralville and Iowa City, in developing their ballot language, are interested in having the 965 extension on the ballot and they want to be able to say that the Board is in agreement. He explained they have said they have a higher priority on space needs and if they get the sales tax passed they are going to use it for space needs because they have other money for the road projects. He said they are willing to participate in the road project but not use the sales tax money for it. He said the first question they need to answer is where the other money is coming from.

Duffy said he doesn't know where Jordahl got his information because he didn't say the money for sales tax would be for space needs. He said it would get shot down. Jordahl said maybe they should revisit it. Duffy stated he would say roads, bridges and space needs might be passable but it's very critical. He said he didn't say it would all go to space needs because there's 930 miles of county roads. Lacina said they need to request the verbiage from Iowa City and Coralville as to what they are putting on the ballot. He stated if they aren't referring to this road, then they don't need to proceed any further, unless the County is going to build a road and they aren't. Bolkcom said he doesn't think Iowa City has made any reference specifically to Deer Creek Road. Duffy said he doesn't think they have either. Bolkcom said he doesn't know if Coralville has or not, but the question was raised by members of the Board as to whether or not they have any role in funding this project at all because in theory, it's going to be annexed. Lacina said he agreed with Joe. Stutsman asked what the payback was. Lacina explained that possibly, if the Cities annex the property after they built the road, they would refund the money over a period of time. He said constructing the road to meet City standards and then have them annex it, isn't a wise way to spend money.

Stutsman said they have other needs in the county. Lacina said they have bridge problems too. Bolkcom said he doesn't know if their position has been well articulated to Coralville. Lacina stated as one Supervisor on the Committee, that if there were no tax, he didn't see any money coming from the Rural Fund to 965. Bolkcom asked if the tax were approved, he was willing to spend their portion of the tax on a road. Lacina said he was willing to support the public's decision. Bolkcom asked if they should support a road that will be annexed. Duffy stated it's getting down to a money thing. He said they'd really have to say what they were funding on the ballot. Lacina stated the public and some governmental agencies talked to them about a collaborative effort, using the Local Option Sales Tax for something jointly. He said the discussion narrowed it down, one of which was the 965 extension. Jordahl said this is the collaborative project and he doesn't think it was third on the list behind a convention center. He said he understood it was number one on the list. Jordahl said they thought collaboration was an important thing and this would benefit all of them. He said it didn't make sense to him to pave Deer Creek Road, even though it wouldn't be annexed, when it made sense to pave 965 and do something to benefit the whole region. Jordahl explained he's not arguing to put rural county tax dollars into the 965 extension but that's an implied position from the arguments that were made earlier. He stated he's trying to get some clarity on what the other funds are. Lacina agreed.

Bolkcom said it has been noted that there are dedicated funds for roads and they don't have dedicated funds for new buildings. He stated they just don't have enough money for new roads. Lacina said that was true and under the idea of collaboration it wouldn't be prudent for them to use tax dollars to pave a center section of the road and Coralville and Iowa City not be signed on so they go from paving to rock or calcium chloride. He asked where the other funds are coming from. Stutsman asked if they were Farm to Market funds. Gardner said no, it wasn't eligible for Farm to Market funds. Bolkcom asked if it would be a Surface Transportation Program. Gardner said it wasn't eligible for that either because it wasn't not a federal system. Stutsman asked if there were other funds. Gardner said not that he was aware of. He stated the Committee's recommendation of Mormon Trek/Melrose was higher on the list than 965 as a collaborative project. Jordahl said that's our their collaborative project. Gardner said no, but they were going to put their money on that before the 965 extension. Bolkcom said he's hearing some support to have a transportation component in their language but it still doesn't answer the question of if they are responsible for 965. He said they shouldn't lead Coralville and the people on with some notion that they will use that money for roads.

Jordahl said they should have a 28E agreement with Iowa City and Coralville about 965 which says they will or will not pay for it and they will or will not be reimbursed if they take annex it. Duffy said they are doing that. Jordahl said they have a ballot issue. Duffy explained if they put that in there, it wouldn't pass. Jordahl said they just need to answer the question. Bolkcom asked if he thought it should be general roads and bridges on the ballot language. He said the Board needs to be clear about where they are using their money. Jordahl said the other question was how much do they want a local option sales tax passed in Johnson County. He stated in the absence of a collaborative project, it has little chance because the City of Coralville sees itself losing revenue relative to the rest of the county. Jordahl said they want some of that back if they are going to be in favor of the tax. Duffy asked why they are losing revenue. Jordahl said because the distribution formula doesn't take into consideration all the property growth that has taken place since 1983. Lacina said the County is the big winners. Duffy said they should have a break because other counties did it the same way and spend the money on roads and now have tourism. Jordahl stated a lot of their voters are City voters. Lacina somebody needs to call Coralville and Iowa City and talk about their priority of 965 and Mormon Trek. He explained if their priority was Mormon Trek, then this was a moot issue. Stutsman agreed. He said if they are mentioning 965 on the ballot, then they should be a player, otherwise they are wasting a lot of time. Jordahl said they need a joint meeting. He said they cancelled the meeting with Coralville about 965. Stutsman said it was because they didn't have any clear agenda items.

Bolkcom said he wasn't clear about what the Board wanted to do about 965. Duffy said it's off the ballot for him. Bolkcom asked if they should leave it general. Stutsman said she would support ballot language as just transportation and roads. Jordahl said that would leave them room to put some money there. Jordahl asked if they had to specify percentages. Stutsman said she thought they encouraged them to be more general. Lacina said Linn County chose to break it down by percentages. Duffy said they got shot down. Lacina said there's a lot of flexibility in structuring it. Stutsman asked what would be accomplished at the joint meeting. Jordahl said they would get on the same page. Bolkcom stated there have been 3 or 4 joint meetings on sales tax already and they are contentious meetings. Jordahl said they have been inconclusive because they haven't come to a conclusion on this issue. Bolkcom said they are closer to it now. Stutsman said they should just tell them where they are coming from. Bolkcom said if the Board wanted to meet jointly, it was always a possibility.

Welsh asked if there were a sales tax, if they would share in the development of 965. Bolkcom said it leaves the door open. Welsh said it was suggested that any County dollars generated by the sales tax, which were used for 965, be paid by the municipalities when it was annexed. Bolkcom said that was incredibly wishful thinking. Stutsman said knowing their infrastructure demands and how Coralville is positioned, she doesn't think it would happen. Gardner said it would be another financing tool for them to use. Duffy said 1st Avenue Extension was paved 6 or 7 years ago, and now they are annexing it. He said the City was going to come out ahead there. Bolkcom said their Local Option Sales Tax discussions have focused on space needs and he assumes they agree on it. Duffy said not for the whole thing.

Bolkcom said they should talk percentages for local option sales tax. Duffy said they picked up another one that morning with SEATS. Bolkcom asked if they wanted to put 20% on roads and 80% on space. Lacina said the expected revenue will be $2,100,000. He asked how long it would last. Bolkcom said forever. Stutsman asked if he thought there would be a sunset on it. Lacina said he would advise them looking at non-reoccurring expenses and sunset it. Bolkcom said the ballot language is in perpetuity. Lacina said he didn't support a local option sales tax forever for reoccurring operational expenses. Bolkcom asked when he wanted to sunset it. Lacina asked how long it would take to retire the debt on their space needs. Jordahl said their space needs were ongoing and by the time they retire that debt they would need more space. Lacina said the public will see this as just another tax. Jordahl said that's what it was. Lacina said he doesn't see it passing. He explained if they want it to pass, they should target specific projects, set up some amortization tables and review it at the end of 5 years. Bolkcom said Linn County sunset it in 5 or 7 years and there were 7 projects. Stutsman said there were some projects that people had some problems with in the Linn County proposition.

Stutsman said the jail problem wasn't going to go away and it's rational to pay for the jail through the sales tax. Lacina said he was suggesting for discussion purposes that they spend 50% on space needs, 25% on property tax relief and 25% for roads and bridges. Jordahl said their needs exist and the money was going to come from the sales tax or grants, or property taxes. He said the clearest way to state the ballot issue is if they want to pay for it with property taxes or a sales tax. He said it wasn't an option. Stutsman said if they don't pay for a jail, they have to pay for prisoners to be housed outside the county. Lacina said they can't say that on the ballot. Bolkcom said they should say it's for space needs, including some of the following. Stutsman said the rural tax payers are going to have to pay for the jail too. Duffy said 35% on roads or it won't pass. Stutsman asked Duffy what roads projects he was thinking of. Duffy said they should just say roads.

Lacina said everyone should write their proposal for the ballot and then come together. Bolkcom said he thought they were narrowing it, not expanding it. Bolkcom said they should make it simple. He said they should spend 25% on roads, 75% on capital needs. Bolkcom said he wasn't in favor of using a regressive tax to pay back less regressive tax. Duffy suggested 35% roads and 65% building needs. Lacina asked if that would cover all space needs for the County. Bolkcom said it would cover some space needs. Stutsman asked what amount they are talking about putting into roads every year. Lacina said it would be $700,000. Duffy said there are going to be some changes in county roads. Bolkcom said they are well aware of that. He said roads is a 5.5 million dollar budget. Duffy said half of that was gasoline tax. Welsh asked how much the jail would cost. Stutsman said they didn't have a set figure but it was probably around $10,000,000. Jordahl asked how much Scott County was paying for a new jail. Stutsman said it was around 40 or 50 million. Bolkcom said $10,000,000 would be a small addition to the jail. Lacina said once they start building, they have to meet federal regulations. He explained they are currently double bunking. He said they would have to double the size the of the jail just to meet standards. Stutsman said the jail is just one component of what they need. Jordahl said they should figure how much it would take to keep current with the growth of the County. He said he would be surprised if they could do it with the local option sales tax. Lacina said they don't have to do the Local Option Sales Tax. Jordahl said they could put all the revenue into property taxes. Lacina said it doesn't have to put it on the ballot. He asked how they would come to an agreement on this. Bolkcom said the Board needed to decide their position on the capital projects and make it look like they are cooperative. Jordahl said they aren't if they don't intend to spend the money on a cooperative project. He said they need to be honest about that. Bolkcom said it could be decided later on.

Jordahl said Coralville and Iowa City have asked them for a statement about what they are going to do with cooperative funding and road projects. Bolkcom said they should tell them point blank. Stutsman said there are 4 individuals who aren't interested in putting money into 965 extension. Jordahl said he wasn't one of those. Lacina said for a collaborative effort he would support it. Stutsman said the jail was a good collaborative effort. Lacina said he is hearing consensus on the jail. Duffy asked if they could TIF the tax like the Cities do. Bolkcom said he was interested in the space needs but the jail isn't his top priority. Lacina said there are costs. Stutsman said she would support 25% for roads and bridges and 75% for space needs. Lacina asked if they wanted to refer to property tax relief at all. Bolkcom said no. Stutsman said property tax relief comes from having another source to pay for things. Duffy said he has some other irons in the fire. He said with trails in there, the voters will shoot it down. Lacina said Sand Road is an example of a road needing some widening. He said he would like to see 10% for property tax relief. Duffy said that should come from the 75%. Lacina said small businesses get hurt by property taxes. Jordahl asked if they could just give small businesses tax relief. Lacina said they could but they need to include affordable housing.

Stutsman asked if it property tax relief would even make a difference in anybody's tax bill. Lacina said it's only 13 cents per citizen. Bolkcom said there would be property tax relief at the State level. Jordahl said property tax relief is a confused issue. He stated they have things to pay for and 2 ways to pay for them. He said there are more things to pay for than they have money. Lacina said if they don't pass a referendum, they will get nothing. Bolkcom said that wasn't enough of an incentive. Jordahl asked what the sense of property tax relief was if they have a $40,000,000 jail, they have to raise the levy to pay for the jail, they lower it with the local option sales tax money and then raise it back up to pay for the jail. Duffy said it's still good to have it on the ballot. Stutsman said she's comfortable with 25% and 75%. Bolkcom asked what they should do next. Lacina said Carolyn should call Marian Karr, Pat White and the Auditor for the language to cover the concept. Deana Pillard asked what the due date for the ballot language was. Bolkcom said he thought it was the 6th. Pillard said Carolyn would be gone until after Christmas.

Jordahl said the Board Chair should communicate to the governments of Coralville and Iowa City that they have no intention on cooperating on 965. He said that is an important piece of knowledge for them to have. Stutsman said they needed to clarify the date when it needed to be submitted. She said she understood the City spent a lot of time hassling over the language for the ballot. Jordahl said they need to get some language out there and then tinker with it. Duffy said if it wasn't done right, they could forget about it. Stutsman asked if Pat White drafts this. Bolkcom said they could ask Pat White for some help. He said they we're going to see him on Thursday and they could talk to him then. Pillard said Tom Slockett was also on vacation. Pillard said she would check with the Auditor's Office to set things up.

Jordahl left at 11:55 a.m.

Bolkcom: We're down to input from members of the public.

Welsh: I have a couple things (inaudible). I think on the sales tax, at least as one citizen, I'd like to know what your space needs are and what your priorities are.

Bolkcom: Right.

Stutsman: Uh-huh.

Welsh: As you know, my love is the whole area of Human Services. I can see where there it's even maybe more critical in the jail. I see that as a real problem. (Inaudible) mentioned about you don't have space but I think you've got to look at that as Sheriff Carpenter said to you, that requirement when you build you have to double, just to get the number you're serving now and the prison system itself isn't doing that. There has to be some way to get that kind of room. At least that's a step that somebody should be taking in saying that hey, that's a requirement that doesn't make sense to us. That would make it almost fiscally irresponsible to do because you'd have to build a second jail some place else so you wouldn't get that (inaudible).

Lacina: And part of that problem, Bob, is it's a federal regulation so it's really difficult to get out of.

Welsh: (Inaudible).

Lacina: I have to.

Welsh: Well they're doubling up right now.

Lacina: Well we are because of a clause, we're able to do it. But other counties are not allowed to. It is a serious problem. What happens is if you're overcrowded, some counties who can't afford jail space, you force your Deputies to do a road evaluation of how serious the criminal on the street is and if it's a dangerous situation, they have to arrest them. If not, they do a lot of drive by case management. You end up storing prisoners on the street. When the courts, at the same time, are trying to get quick justice so that when somebody commits a crime, the victim can see that there's justice and the individual has to pay quick restitution. So we're kind of caught. We want to lock them up but we don't have the space. It just gets really muddy.

Welsh: I guess what I'm saying is I think people don't know your space needs.

Bolkcom: I think you're right.

Lacina: You're right, I agree.

Welsh: In your budget discussion, you don't get this from any one department (inaudible) the observation that the County could well employ a grant writer and that that grant writer be of concern not only in the areas of Human Services, but in many of your other areas. I'm also convinced along with that, that you're either going to have to keep raising my taxes or you're going to have to make X without the way of accessing funds, other than tax dollars, to pay for a lot of the services that we want. Quite frankly, one of the ways to access other moneys is through grants. You won't get that from any one department because of the priorities. You didn't get that. The Cluster Board said hey put a grant writer in. An overall grant writer for the County, I think, would pay for itself, maybe not the first year, but by the second year, it would surely pay for itself. In future years, it would more than pay for itself.

Bolkcom: That's the theory and that might be true. We do get a lot of grants, departmentally. The question is what are we missing out on. If a department head sees a grant, do they not do it because they're overwhelmed and don't have the time and if we had a grant writer, it could be shuffled to that person. To what degree does that happen now?

Lacina: Some simply are afraid for an example in the case, we could have picked up a patrol officer and some cars, but it was also an ended grant and after a certain time period, you either had to fire the employee or we had to pick up the cost so we need to be careful that we're prepared to continue. Most of the grants are not forever reoccurring. Departments are struggling with that. That's a possibility of a grant writing position.

Welsh: Not all grants are equal.

Duffy: I would agree with that, Bob. If we know the people that's going to represent us in Des Moines, there will probably be some tax relief asked for schools, you know that's the big thing now, the schools. I think that's what's going to happen, Joe.

Bolkcom: OK.

Duffy: No really. We're talking about schools. It's all that's talked about. There's a big political issue.

Bolkcom: Yes.

Duffy: I don't' see this as a joke. I think...

Bolkcom: No, I know. Other questions from members of the public.

League of Women Voters Representative: I would like to remind you, and you did bring it up today, that if you build a jail with sales tax dollars. In one sense, they are discounted dollars because 15-20% of the money is coming from people who don't live in Johnson County. So you can make the argument, we're going to build it, but in the long run it's less local money than if we have to...

Bolkcom: Right.

Lacina: That's right.

League of Women Voters Representative: ...use a few property taxes.

Lacina: Quite a number of people passing through on the interstate and that are not our residents so there is a fair...

League of Women Voters Representative: (Inaudible) medical, sports, and a lot of other things.

Lacina: Right.

Bolkcom: Good point. Other comments from members of the public. Where are we at Board? We've got... Afternoon... we've got a couple items to finish.

Pillard: Are you going to do 8b?

Bolkcom: I don't think we're going to do 8b. Jonathan put that on. He might want to be here for that. We've got 8e.

Pillard: 8b, do you want that on Thursday?

Bolkcom: Let's put b later on in the month.

Pillard: Thursday?

Duffy: Later on? Thursday's going to be (inaudible).

Bolkcom: How does Thursday look? You can put it on for Tuesday, the 27th.

Pillard: You want it on for Tuesday?

Bolkcom: Yes.

Pillard: This is (inaudible).

Bolkcom: The other item there is discussion regarding staff support. I don't know what that involves.

Stutsman: I don't know. Who put that... Did Jonathan put that on or Carol?

Pillard: I'm assuming so. I think initially that was on there because of (inaudible).

Stutsman: I'm assuming it was whether we wanted to include on the Supervisor's budget to add another support staff and if we wanted to put in any moneys for any reallocation of space up here for remodeling and things. I'm not supportive of another staff person in here because number 2, we don't have any place to put them for one thing and...

Bolkcom: I agree, but I'm not going to be here so... I bet I know what Charlie thinks about that one. OK.

Pillard: So (b) you want on Tuesday, the 27th.

Bolkcom: Let's put b on Tuesday. It's on for action on Thursday but I think we need to have more conversation on it.

Pillard: (Inaudible). Next week you're not meeting at all so it would be the 27th.

Bolkcom: Put it on for Christmas. I think that covers the agenda. Did I miss anything?

Welsh: You're not meeting (inaudible).

Bolkcom: We're not meeting next week but were meeting on the 29th and the 31st.

Duffy: That 31st one, I don't know about that.

Bolkcom: Get the word out. 31st?

Stutsman: Charlie starts celebrating early.

Bolkcom: Work until the last...

Muhlenbruch: (Inaudible) so I can watch the bowl game.

Bolkcom: I didn't mean that. It's going to be the 29th.

Duffy: Bowl games? Now that will be on. We're not on any football...

Stutsman: You can bring the TV up here, Charlie.

Bolkcom: Question about the Senior Center Commission, we've got an appointment that we considered earlier in the meeting. Is there any interest to... We formally talked about having a member of the Board of Supervisors as a member to this Commission. I want to revisit that appointment with the Board and see if you want to reconsider that.

Stutsman: Well there's a number of issues that are going to come up and I think we did talk at one time about next time there was an opening, that we would put a Board of Supervisors in that position to work more closely with the Senior Center Commission. I think at that time, we did not know Joanne was going to reapply. She's been an excellent member. There's no doubt about that but I certainly do see the argument in the benefit of having a direct liaison to the Board by having a Board member on there.

Bolkcom: Maybe it's just for a year. Maybe it's just...

Lacina: I wouldn't have a problem designating an individual to monitor their meetings, but I'm not interested in taking Joanne off. She has really been a tiger up there. She's a good representative for us.

Bolkcom: I don't know that that would happen. I think that you're probably going to have difficulty getting a member of the Board to attend unless they are (inaudible).

Lacina: Well then that shows lack of interest.

Duffy left at 12:10 p.m.

Bolkcom: I just think people are busy and I just think they don't...

Stutsman: It's a difference. We've had liaison to Chatham Oaks. It just doesn't have the same... We could try the liaison. I don't know.

Lacina: It's up to Jonathan because I don't think Charlie and I support taking Joanne off and if Jonathan supports it, then you can do that.

Bolkcom: OK. We'll talk to him between now and Thursday and see where we're at.

Lacina: That's fine.

Bolkcom: All right.

Welsh: I think having a member of the Board of Supervisors at that table during this coming Fiscal Year would be extremely important.

Bolkcom: There's a lot going on in terms of making sure the Senior Dining Program works smoothly. We've talked about the commotion that's going to be created with the construction, the space needs there, and all that stuff. I think it makes some sense to do it.

Stutsman: I think we also have to discuss who would be that person.

Bolkcom: Right. Board members are busy folks.

Stutsman: I want to make sure we have that in place before we make that appointment too.

Bolkcom: All right. What's left? Is that it? We are recessed until Thursday. Thank you.

Recessed at 12:10 p.m.; reconvened on December 17, 1998 at 11:16 a.m.

(Continued in Part 6)