Jordahl: Thanks. I've tried to assess the relative amount of time needed for the next 2 agenda items. Angela Williams, regarding housing planning and Ron Stutsman from Johnson County HazMat. The HazMat discussion, I think, is probably going to be briefer than the housing discussion. Maybe we should take that out of sequence. Would that be all right with you, Angela? Carol, I think we're going to have something to talk about there with housing.

Peters: Uh-huh.

Jordahl: Yes. Why don't we go ahead with the HazMat issue?

Jordahl: Please identify yourselves for the Auditor.

Dave Skinner: I'm Dave Skinner.

HazMat Team Coordinator Ron Stutzman: And I'm Ron Stutzman. Dave and I are both members of the Johnson County HazMat team. I'm currently the team coordinator, and I sent you a kind of a brief history overview of what it is we're trying to accomplish. Just to quickly recap a couple of years ago we were approached by some members of Cedar County about extending our HazMat response team coverage into a portion of Cedar County. We approached the Emergency Management Commission at that time about how to proceed. We set up a subcommittee which looked into questions about liability and how we're going to cover costs and so forth and so on, that subcommittee came back with a checklist for us to use when developing a 28E agreement. We then too the 28E agreements from other HazMat teams across the state and used that as a pattern and wrote a 28E agreement, we then took that back to the Emergency Management Commission which they approved and then we also had some discussion with our insurance carrier. Bob Saunders is also here this morning I believe because you have some questions that I can't answer or Dave and I can't answer. We also took the agreement to the County Attorney and we also had some discussion to Bob Carpenter who's umbrella we fall under as the County HazMat Team. What we're here for is looking for your approval in order for us to respond to hazardous material incidents to a portion of Cedar County we need you signature on the bottom line so to speak. Signing the 28E agreement. With that said, I'll entertain any questions.

Stutsman: It's nice to meet the other Ron Stutzman, my brother-in-law's name is Ron so we get mixed up occasionally. I noticed that the other counties that are doing this, have they run into any problems with this like everybody having to respond at the same time or anything like that.

Stutzman: Are you speaking to places like Des Moines and Waterloo that covers various County areas? They use a similar system that we attach to our agreement that prioritizes simultaneous calls, if that were to occur. Currently it doesn't happen a lot. The HazMat teams across the state meet quarterly, so I am constantly talking to these them and it doesn't happen very often, but they do have procedure in place if it were to occur. We have kind of protected ourselves by if we had a simultaneous incident here and somewhere else we would take care of this one first. If they were equal level incidents, if one were more serious then we would attend to that one first.

Stutsman: But they've not run into any problems of covering more than one county.

Stutzman: They've been doing it, guessing 4,5, or 6 years now.

Stutsman: OK. How does the funding go, you said in here there was a fee for Service?

Stutzman: In most cases it's a per capita where the county pays a per capita fee to the HazMat team that is going to respond to their county, and that's the money that they use to buy their equipment and train with, now if they go a spill in that county, than the spiller is still responsible. Actually, the county is responsible, the 2nd county is responsible to bill the responsible party. So, in other words they have to have their own ordinance that will allow them to collect the fee for it's billing, just like we do here in Johnson County.

Jordahl: This fee for service is something that I don't quite understand in that context. If it's a per capita billing how do we arrive at that per capita figure.

Stutzman: For this example?

Jordahl: Yes.

Stutzman: Well we've talked to the Emergency Management Director in Cedar County several times, and she has offered to do it in one of 2 ways. Either per capita thing or she would rather, because Cedar County is equally split, equidistant from Scott County and Johnson County and Linn County all of which have teams, she would just assume take the goal money and split it 3 ways rather than a per capita, so they would base it on a 55 since per capita and then take whatever that amount of money is and slit it 2 separate ways.

Jordahl: Now, I'm not an expert of the funding of HazMat operations, is 55 cents per capita a figure that's common to all counties.

Stutzman: It's pretty common across the state of Iowa, ours is currently a quarter, we've recently begun the process to raise it a little so we can finance a replacement vehicle, but some counties charge as much as a $1, I think, that's what Ottumwa charges for their 7 for 8 counties, but most of them start out a dollar and then drop off to 50 cents so yes, 50 cents is pretty average.

Skinner: Since part of West Branch is now in Johnson County, what this is going to do is basically expand us into West Branch fire district, (inaudible) fire district. Besides that it doesn't entail much more than that.

Lehman: You're looking a t a portion here west of the Cedar River, which West Branch probably the only community in Cedar County to speak of that size, that's when you're going to tun into some Ministry or commercial type thing and some agricultural. Have you done some history about the number of calls, over the years have been, I realize I don't think that (inaudible) been addressing them, except for their fire departments anything don't get cleaned up as well as they should. In a fertilizer spill or something like that I realize the importance of something being done correctly the first time.

Skinner: Well Dick Stoolman's here the West Branch Fire Chief and he can probably tell us how many calls have been there that you know...

Lehman: I'm asking that I guess and what the time demand is going to be on your teams just to track...

Stutzman: Currently we average about 8 calls a year, is all and those are time when you're really needed in other words when something happens and you're really needed. The rest of time are small things that...

Lehman: You might be called out on to assist or maybe to view and don't have to really take any action.

Stutzman: Yes, most of the time we don't get called unless we're really needed.

Skinner: And most of the time it isn't any incident involving an interstate transportation.

Stutsman: I guess that's what I was wondering too, if you had the manpower to do this you're not going to spread yourself so thin, that you have to go to Tipton.

Skinner: We wouldn't be trying to tackle extra responsibility.

Lehman: I talked to Bob Saunders and he was saying that all counties are required to have this it's just that they don't have the means to do it, you have the expertise and it's not like you're really going out to take on double what you've got now, just, they're looking for a source to take care of their requirement.

Stutzman: Right.

Stutsman: Is there any downside to doing this, Bob, do you have any thoughts about it. It seems like when this first came up there wasn't a lot of enthusiasm for this, am I remembering that correctly.

County Sheriff Bob Carpenter: Well I think my concern from the start on this I was thinking that my question have been answered and (inaudible). My concern was to the liability to the people on Johnson County going to Cedar County if there's a liability issue there and we're going to get caught paying for something that Cedar County gets. We do West Branch has many (inaudible) per capita due to the fact that the 2 of us (inaudible) to start (inaudible) actually we (inaudible) West Branch because we (inaudible) they're fire district does run over into Johnson County and or (inaudible) but basically right now it's West Branch is part of Johnson County. So, I don't have a problem with the extra territory and this group that they formed a year ago and that would Bob Saunders as far as liability issues and insurance concerns, I think they very well answered my concerns. The last thing I would want to do is create a burden for the people of Johnson County because we're actually taking on a contract for Cedar County, but I think that's I feel comfortable with some of those issues so doing this.

Jordahl: The cost thing is, just having finished the budget process and having stretched ourselves to provide additional funding to your department, I think, we were glad to do that. We or at least I, am sensitive to the question of is this going to pay for itself. We're talking about a Building Code Department in the offing as a possible recommendation for the Zoning people and the idea there is that it will pay for itself so it's no problem in adding it, and the question here is are we going to get a request for a 2nd vehicle, you know, to handle an extended service area as we have for an ambulance to handle the growth and so forth. If we expand the area, the fee for service phrase implies that there is going to be an appropriate fee that will offset the entire increase in obligation if it were to occur, and I think that's what you're talking to the including liability, including the need for equipment and manpower and so forth, personnel, excuse me and so forth.

Carpenter: I think Jonathan the answer that would be at the present time we're just in the process of (inaudible) to purchase (inaudible) just like anything else you need to upgrade you're equipment as you go along (inaudible) that specialist in this field, but I think that I we needed extra vehicles my service for Cedar County would consequently have to be something in (inaudible) we should provide what vehicles we need to service and take care of our County adequately, but whatever they pay us should take care of any extra (inaudible) I don't think we should pay for their needs because they're required any law to do that same thing to us. This is their way of doing it. So I really don't think I'm concerned as much about the money as the (inaudible) something happens, like I said I think Bob can call and release my nerves on that, I just don't want to see (inaudible) a law suit or something, a different county, but I think that's been addressed and it does work for other counties, and it works quite well.

Jordahl: I think in most areas of County Service I think we've presumed that we're funding things pretty much t kind of a as much as we need but not much more, kind of a level, but in the HazMat we hope that the equipment sits idol.

Carpenter: Well that's true but you have to still train.

Jordahl: Yes.

Carpenter: You got to keep your equipment (inaudible).

Jordahl: I don't mean completely not ever move but.

Carpenter: But it's kind of like an ambulance if you don't need it it's best not to have it but if you do need it you have got have everything up to snuff and the best training and everything and that's what they're trying to do. I think one variety is that we're trying to take on this extra and give our members huge (inaudible) by actually doing a little bit more. The training aspect is actually a whole lot of (inaudible) kind of go together, you know. If you set to work on a team you go to nothing but classes forever then you don't get to participate in anything it gets kind of boring as pretty soon you're going to lose your team, and I think that this is one of the things these guys are talking about and I think that 8 calls a year, that's not really a lot to really...

Jordahl: It's kind of a win, win.

Carpenter: And so I guess you know, (inaudible).

Jordahl: Sir, please identify yourself for the microphones here.

West Branch Fire Chief Dick Stoolman: I'm Dick Stoolman the Fire Chief of West Branch. Mainly all you'd be doing is expanding into my rural fire district and wouldn't be involved with any other departments and your all HazMat team has already trained our people on operation lever and renewing their training. They have been once to West Branch in the last 5 years. The interstate's the biggest worry because of all of the semi's carrying hazardous materials and stuff through there and that's the biggest worry. I was one of the people who helped organize the HazMat team I was on it for several years, and I just think, I want them, we are part of Johnson County now.

Jordahl: Welcome aboard.

Stoolman: We have several and we're going to grow in the Johnson County more and more. I'd like to have this HazMat team because they are on one of the best on the state.

Jordahl: Hey, did you hear that, one of the best in State.

Lehman: I think we're real dependant on West Branch if you come clear over to Scott Boulevard, used to have a city.

Stoolman: You can go into the City limits and back several places to cover the properties.

Duffy: You know Jonathan.

Jordahl: Yes Charlie.

Duffy: Representing the County and Emergency Management when this first surfaced had to have been what a couple of years ago or more and do you have any reservations about any of this Pat, the liability?

County Attorney Pat White: I don't have reservations about the concept or the contract, I've made a variety of recommendations on the contract which were adopted and then belatedly I got the revised draft reviewed yesterday, I don't know if Ron's has even seen my memo yet, there are a couple more minor thing to be done but they're also important, I mean the draft you had before, it doesn't yet pin down what the cost, what the per capita fee or the base rate is going to be. It doesn't yet pin down what the territory is, I mean those are very important things. This contract will have to come back to you for formal consideration again. As you'll recall I have always been a supporter of multi-county service delivery and HazMat is a logical area to do that, but you can't ever say with certainty that you're doing it in a way that doesn't increase the risk of liability and so you just balance the need to deliver service and public safety with the likelihood, or minimal likelihood of a problem. There are some risk's here. Hazardous materials is an area that we're still learning a lot of about and there's a fairly significant unknown. These are folks who occasionally walk into situations that are pretty dangerous and it's hard to know when they're walking into them, and we haven't yet, at least is this area, we haven't experienced a death or a serious injury but someday someplace somebody is going to experience that. When the interstate is the primary source of risk, there's at least an argument that a per capita cost share is not the best way to do it but that still needs to decided. I mean Cedar County is a smaller population base and in terms of hazardous traffic they would have pretty close to the same traffic that Johnson County would have over I-80 at least. Those are balancing that you make, I mean, if you've got a large enough territory per capita works just fine, and it may work just fine here too.

Jordahl: Is that major truck stop, Walcott, is that Cedar County or not.

Duffy: No, that's Scott.

White: But just one other thought in responding to Charlie's question do I have any concerns you could hypothesize a hazardous materials spill where the actual out of pocket cost is a million dollars. Somebody holding a nuclear waste truck tips over in Cedar County and it's hard to tell what the clean up cost would be in this contract would envision that we hand the bill to Cedar County for that and they would say, my goodness how could we, we can't possibly pay that, so there are always potential problems. You can't write a contract in the area of hazardous material that guarantees that there's not going to be some incremental cost and some sort of incident that we're not prepared for.

Jordahl: You were saying that the hauler or the person responsible for the accident happening would be billed for this million dollars rather than Cedar County.

White: Yes, but you, one of the reasons you're looking at a Building Code is you get people who aren't around and who aren't solvent and who aren't insured, and who have no assets.

Jordahl: Hauling nuclear waste, what a country.

White: Right.

Stutsman: Well you have to make a living some way.

Jordahl: Boy that's the spirit of capitalism right there, I tell you.

Stutzman: Typically there wouldn't be a million dollar clean up cost. I mean there could be a million dollar clean up cost but that's why there was the super-fund legislation set up by the federal government there are fund, and the State of Iowa have funds and legislation that's set aside clean up for hazardous materials, and no County or City is going to get stuck with a HazMat clean up bill because of legislation sets aside money for that.

Skinner: And in the 10 years that I've been on the team we have not yet been unsuccessful in getting our money back we always re-billed for everything, labor, everything we use the vehicle, and have not yet had to go after anyone that didn't pay. Pat's right that if it happened in Cedar County, Johnson County couldn't bill this spiller in Cedar County, we'd have to bill the County because it's in their County, and so it's up to them to go after the spiller.

Jordahl: Bob Saunders here, what if one of our people did something at the Hazardous site which caused it get worse, you know, opened something up, blew something up, set something on fire, that worsened the incident where our action caused the problem. We're then liable I suppose even though somebody else dumped the stuff out on the shoulder in the first place.

Insurance Agent of Record Bob Saunders: Yes, you got double concerns with the insurance that you have to deal with. First off, as a routine most liability policies that businesses purchase carry an absolute pollution exclusion, OK? Now you've got the case of the carrier, the common carrier whose hauling the hazardous material. Hazardous material by definition doesn't have to be nuclear waste, given a really simple example in 1993 when interstate 80 was close and all that traffic was routed on Highway 1, there was an accident when a women lost control of her car, the (inaudible) of the 8 month pregnant woman was killed when the semi hit her and swerved and missed the first women. The truck that tipped over was carried 80 gallon drums of used cooking oil, now that's a hazardous material by definition, and when that was spilled on a farm field a firm in Iowa was brought in to take all that topsoil off, move it to a 2nd location where it was airified and purified and then later on sold as black dirt again. But the bill to move that dirt was $254,000 because that bill was sent to me for payment, and I returned it to the cleaning company and said the driver who caused the accident has a $25,000 property damage liability insurance and those limits have been long spent, so whatever happened to that bill I don't know because there was no insurance to cover it, so it doesn't take nuclear waste to get a hazardous material spill. The issue has always been what happens if our people compound the problem while they are there. The problem you get into is how do you compound it. If we're suppose to secure the site and keep it from spreading until another truck has showed up and this can be pumped into another truck, how can you cause something to make the spill get larger. That's a liability that you'll just have to deal with at the time. Whether it happens in Johnson County or in Cedar County, to us it's a County function we have an appropriate 28E agreement in place it's sort of like the agreement we have to provide paramedics at the University of Iowa events. We staff those if something happens. That's a liability we've taken on by agreement, when Sheriff's Deputies under the Sheriff's Department are moonlighting somewhere, we take on the County face on that we specialize (inaudible) insurance in that case, it's an expanded role of County Government, there is just some liability risk that you inherently have with the situation and you are responsible for them. Keep in mind there is limited duties by the HazMat team, many times it's a containment not a clean up issue. A lot of clean up is done by outside certified sources that come in and do this. Our job is more containing than clean up. Clean up might be a simple as putting some chemical compound on a 10 gallon gas tank rupture on a fender bender auto accident and that's a hazardous spill by nature we may end up cleaning that one up, but if a 5,000 gallon fuel truck tips over and is leaking, someone else is going to clean that up, we are not. They're going to be getting the bills for it but we're going to have to contain the situation and keep it from getting worse than it is, but we try to limit the exposure to those incidences.

Jordahl: So we don't do a lot of intervening in these situations. Righting train cars and so forth, that's someone else, who pays for someone else?

Saunders: Well in the case of licensed haulers of nuclear waste for instance, the federal legislation requires that there's a pool of $480,000,000 of self funded liability insurance for nuclear industry in this country has a pool, this money is available for situations like this, so like when a nuclear reactor has a leak. This is where they go get the money to help pay for this type of damages, they kind of fund their own operation. Anybody license who is permitted to haul nuclear waste or hazardous materials carries extremely high liability insurance, that doesn't mean they couldn't lapse their policy at a particular moment in time or the limits might be adequate but they're carrying significantly higher limits of liability for instance in Johnson County or Iowa City carries in their operations right now. So, they are fairly well regulated and that doesn't mean there aren't charlatans out there trying to make a buck, hauling thing late at night that they shouldn't be hauling, you'll always have to deal with that, but the good firms that we're going to be contacting that are going to come and alleviate the spill are the firms that are licensed and insured and are bonded and they know what they're doing and they're certificate of insurance are on file and we know they know what they're doing and properly insured.

Stutzman: I'll give you a couple of examples of some thing's we've done a couple of years ago, we had a semi go over on the on ramp from 380 to West Bound 80 and it went off in the ditch and then back over and laid back over on the side, and there was lead acid based batteries and there was explosives on there, only it wasn't identified correctly on the trailer, once we got the shipping papers we had to determine whether there was an issue or a problem, and they closed the interstate there for the day. Once we got done determining what our responsibility was and had mitigated past the emergency level then we were out of there and we billed for our time that we spent there and the products and the equipment that we used, when we were done they brought some one else in to offload the product and deal with it from there and they were billed for that.

Jordahl: So, you're like first responders or something versus a hospital.

Stutzman: That's it, emergency versus clean up. We're emergency mitigating.

Lehman: I don't know all the mechanics and stuff but do you have recognize that problems and then you contact someone, or is there someone else that somas in, like 3rd party.

Stutzman: Well there's a 3rd party that was there before. We recognize what the problem is, we try to determine...

Lehman: Do you contact someone else to realize you have to decide who else to contact?

Stutzman: That's typically up to the spiller.

Skinner: A couple of months ago and Coralville had a semi go over with the 200 pound cylinders of highly toxic gas on it, and it laid over on the side and it (inaudible) were strewn about. We took the metering devices and found that there was no leaks in the back of trailer and discovered that there were no leaks so it wasn't a problem. At that point it was turned back over to Coralville Fire Department, who stood by until the shipper came by and off loaded all of the material. So, our job was just to make sure there was no immediate emergency to the citizens living in that area, and once that was determined not to be a problem then our job was over.

Stutzman: The training that all of the emergency responders have gotten, and the awareness and operations level training is such that if they identify a potential hazardous material spill, that doesn't mean they have to see a could of product floating in the air, or something running down the road. That's why they sue the placards on the truck and the tank cars and so forth. if that vehicle is placard then you have to assume that there is a potential for release. If it's in an accident, or the obvious thing you see clouds and fumes and so forth so they don't even, they are not even suppose to go in and do any identification themselves they identify from a distance and start the proper people.

Lehman: I guess my question kind of failed with the liability question that if you don't identify a situation. You kind of take care of your own precautions and after that pass it on to someone else.

Stutzman: Right.

Lehman: You're not going to get criticized for not passing it on to the wrong person because your not the one determining who comes in fouling.

Stutzman: They know they're products and they know how they're going to make...

Lehman: They know their procedures.

Stutzman: The other thing is we follow very strict OSHA rules and we train for those rules all of the time. I think probably there's fewer deaths and injuries occurring with hazardous materials out there because of the strictness of the rules we have to apply for.

Stutsman: So today basically your just asking for go ahead to begin drafting the 28E and then we'll have.

Stutzman: Actually we've got the 28E agreement almost done.

White: It's pretty well done.

Stutzman: Got some minor changes to make. Then we would like for you to sign off on it if you are satisfied with that.

Stutsman: OK.

Thompson: Well I think we should put it on for our agenda, is Thursday too soon?

White: Yes it is too soon. I assume you need more time than that don't you?

Stutzman: I need to spend some time with you but I've made some of the changes you sent me yesterday but 5 or 6 of them we had...

White: Somebody has got to make a decision about the territory and the per-capita.

Stutzman: I called her yesterday.

Jordahl: Sounds like there's a couple of issues to iron out here yet.

Stutzman: Maybe another week or so.

White: Could I just... This would be a good time to reflect on the structure here which I think is important for you to understand. This is a pretty unique operation. It started about 10 years ago. Ron's got some of that history in his memo to you as a group of volunteers. Pretty soon people started saying, what kind of protection do we have for these volunteers who are putting themselves at some risk by responding to hazardous material sites. After a considerable debate we made a decision. We being the Board in consultation with us HazMat team and Bob that we would house them in the Sheriff's Department. The Sheriff is actually the department head for this group of volunteers which includes as you can tell from people who are here a fairly heavy presence of the Iowa City Fire Department. We have always assumed that if an Iowa City Firefighter on the HazMat team in the course of his or her duties is injured that Iowa City will take care of that. But we've also built this as a group of people who would fall under our workers comp policy failing anything else. Or under the Sheriff's authority failing anything else. As it expands to, and I'm sort of reading partly between the lines and partly what I know about it is it evolves into a wider geographical entity. If it continues to do so we'll probably want to revisit whether it really should be a County department or whether we ought to create some sort of larger regional entity that would spread the costs more formally or spread the risks more formally among other agencies. I'm not suggesting that we need to be making any change at this point but this is a function that is going to continue to grow and where regional agencies makes a lot of sense.

Saunders: Pats comments, because of that concern expressed by Pat several years ago we isolated the HazMat workers compensation policy to a simple policy that is freestanding by itself so if anything happens it will not impact the workers compensation insurance for not only Johnson County but any of the counties and or cities that are involved by people to this. It became the party of first choice. HazMat pays the premium for this out of their 25 cent allocation right now and (inaudible). We did that because of the fact that everybody is a volunteer. Under the workers compensation rules volunteers are given the luxury of choosing their actual employed income base for the states average weekly wage, whichever is to their advantage. The average weekly wage is about $535 now. So if someone has a $200 a week job and they're working on HazMat and they're hurt they could opt to take the $525 a week. But if someone is a professor at the University of Iowa making $250,000 a year he can elect to use that versus the $525 a week. So we've isolated the HazMat program exclusively by itself. (Inaudible).

Stutsman: Good history lesson, the team and structure and things.

Jordahl: I thought this was going to be a simpler issue. I was wrong. Sorry Angela.

Duffy: I know one case in the County where an anhydrous ammonia caught fire. HazMat should have handled that but it was right on the County line so they phoned a small town that had a fire department. I'm sure they didn't have any HazMat team. It came out, took a chance and put the fire out. They sent them a bill but in a case like that the County could really get into trouble or maybe even the person that phoned because that's dangerous stuff. These guys, suits for example. What are they about $1,000 or so. It will protect you from almost anything I'd say. We seem to be ahead of most counties. Bob do you have any reservations?

Carpenter: I would just like to make one comment. These guys probably are not real happy with me because I have drug my feet on this proposal for 2 years now because I was not, I looked at it a little bit different. (Inaudible). I'm not sure at this point in time. These guys do an excellent job. They spend an awful lot of time training and I don't know. I guess I've changed my mind about it to the point where it would be in agreement, if things don't go well not necessarily with lawsuits or these things and Bob doesn't seem to have a problem with it. If things don't go good for a year or so we could always drop the contract and just continue to do it. These guys work pretty hard on it. They've done a lot of homework. I think they've done a good job and I at this point in time (inaudible).

Jordahl: As the details of this are worked out, I'm still not clear lets say on exactly how we're going to be compensated for this. This fee for service question used to be a little elusive yet. So I hope we can revisit this before we make a final decision on it.

Stutzman: I'm guessing the next time we bring this to you there will be a dollar amount?

Stutsman: Uh-huh.

White: You'll be reimbursed 2 ways. There will be a base charge that they just pay as part of the ongoing operation and then there will be a specific incident charge that they would also pay.

Stutzman: OK.

Carpenter: Jonathan. The way it's happened in Johnson County now is each of the municipalities (inaudible) they all competed per capita per year. It was 25 cents, they raised it to 75 cents (inaudible). This would stay in effect for a couple of years... My understanding is it would drop down by cents. This has helped me. The Board for Johnson County citizens outside in rural areas, the Board pays into this fund per capita. This also is a couple of years old. But that's how you pay for it. We don't actually come to the Board every year and say (inaudible). It's 25 cents. Each of the towns which all of the towns last I knew have signed off on the raise for the equipment. Basically West Branch per capita, what they're going to do is take the whole county, what they would like to do I guess is take the whole county population, whatever that adds up to. What did you say it was? 50 cents per capita for something like that.

Jordahl: 55 I think.

Carpenter: 55, figure out what that is, divide it in 3 ways and then we would get that portion for a third of the county. So all they have a situation arises that would be the funding from Cedar County if it's above and beyond.

Jordahl: Uh-huh. Right. OK. Well like I said, we'll see this again when we've got the 28E agreement in its final form and I'll just wait for whoever knows what that is to put it back on the agenda for a formal meeting so that we can have any additional discussion needed and take action to I assume approve this thing. So members of the public want to get a last word in on this thing? Otherwise I think we should, Angela please lets take a break.

White: I was going to suggest that the Iowa City Fire Chief is here and he's been silent throughout but I thought maybe we ought to give him a chance to...

Iowa City Fire Chief Andrew Rocca: I'm just pleased to say that you're looking at this regionalization concept. I've been a proponent of this since the idea was carried forth. I think as Bob has said the liability issues have been looked at, the legal issues have been looked at. It looks like it's a good project and one that we should embrace and move forward on. Iowa City Fire Department is currently a contingent to the Johnson County HazMat team. We have roughly 10 or 12 of our personnel involved directly with the hazardous materials program and will continue to do so. So we do support this endeavor and appreciate the opportunity to speak to that.

White: Thanks Andy.

Jordahl: OK, thank you. Well let's take a 15 minute break.

Recessed at 10:25 a.m.; reconvened at 10:43 a.m.

(Continued in Part 3)